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#14. How A Neuroscientist Thinks About Cannabis. Combining Data And Individual Feedback – With Nick Jikomes Of Leafly (Podcast)

Nick Jikomes, Leafly Director of Science and Innovation on The Hemp Startup Journey Podcast

Episode Show Notes with Nick Jikomes

Nick Jikomes is the Director of Science & Innovation at Leafly, a company that focuses on educating its 2 million monthly visitors about cannabis strains. 

Continue reading “#14. How A Neuroscientist Thinks About Cannabis. Combining Data And Individual Feedback – With Nick Jikomes Of Leafly (Podcast)”

THCP: What is this new cannabinoid and Where to Buy It

The cannabis industry is evolving at a rapid pace, especially as more and more people embrace the medical benefits of cannabis. In response to this growing demand, researchers are further investigating both the benefits of cannabis, as well as potential new cannabinoids. Researchers have recently discovered two cannabinoids with a lot of potential, THCP and CBDP, one of which is available to consumers. Keep reading to see what they are and how you can purchase it or provide it to your customers.  

What are the differences between THC and THCP?

Chances are, you’ve probably heard of THC, which is officially known as tetrahydrocannabinol. THC is the psychoactive and intoxicating ingredient in marijuana that gives people a high sensation, but a new cannabinoid might give it a run for its money. THCP, also known as tetrahydrocannabiphorol, is a newly discovered cannabinoid that is considered relatively similar to its better-known cousin, THC. 

Researchers have also found another new compound in cannabis, CBDP. CBDP is known as cannabidiphorol and is very closely related to CBD. 

Advanced chemical analysis has helped us identify these closely related cannabinoids, and it has also let us recognize what sets them apart from previously known substances. The remainder of this article will dive into this exploration in greater detail. 

What is THCP?

THCP molecule, now available for consumption from Spectrum Labs

THCP, or tetrahydrocannabiphorol, is a cannabis-derived cannabinoid with a 7-link binding chain. The new cannabinoid was discovered in 2020 by Italian researchers and is believed to be 33 times more active than regular THC on the CB1 receptors, and 5 to 10 times more active than THC on the CB2 receptors.

Spectrometry analysis allowed the Italian researchers to separate THCP from the hundreds of other cannabinoids found in cannabis. And this research revealed some interesting differences. For example, THCP has seven links in its one binding chain, compared with only five in traditional THC. There is some indication that the more significant number of links will increase THCP’s binding capacity. 

Cannabinoid’s efficacy, at least to a certain degree, is linked to how well it can bind to CB1 receptors. Initial research findings suggest that THCP binds on an order of magnitude better than traditional THC. As a result, THCP may do a greater job regulating anxiety, stress, pain relief, happiness, and other conditions targeted in the body by THC.

Experts also suggest that THCP might be 5 to 10 times more active than THC on the CB2 receptors. The CB2 receptors regulate inflammation and pain, enhance our immune response to pathogens, and protect against bone loss. Therefore, there’s great potential for THCP’s impact on the endocannabinoid system. 

What is CBDP?

CBDP molecule

CBDP, or cannabidiphorol, is another recently-discovered cannabinoid derived from cannabis. CBDP contains a 7-link chain, rather than the more common 5-link chain of CBD.

At the same time that researchers discovered THCP and its promises, they also found CBDP. As noted previously, CBDP is very similar to CBD, but there are some essential differences. Like with THCP, CBDP also has a seven chain link, rather than the more commonly seen five chain link. 

The binding affinity for THC and THCP is significantly higher than for CBD and CBDP. As a result, this means that a breakthrough with CBDP may have less of an impact on a person’s health and well-being. 

Is THCP Legal In The United States?

In a lengthy analysis of THC analogs, Rod Kight explains the legality of THCP, Delta-9 THC, Delta-8 THC and THCV in the United States.

Due to a complex legal history with Marijuana, THC is the only cannabinoid listed as a controlled substance under the Schedule 1 of the Controlled Subtances Act.

On the other hand, the 2018 Farm Bill states that hemp is legal as long as the delta-9 THC is no more than 0.3 percent:

the plant Cannabis sativa L. and any part of that plant, including the seeds thereof and all derivatives, extracts, cannabinoids, isomers, acids, salts, and salts of isomers, whether growing or not, with a delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol concentration of not more than 0.3 percent on a dry weight basis.

Because THCP is derived from a legal hemp farm, is extracted to oil by an approved hemp processor, and the delta-9 THC levels are below 0.3%, THCP is legal in the United States.

Why Is This Important? 

THCP and CBDP discovery are important for several reasons. First, it underscores that the cannabis industry continues to evolve and craft new solutions. It demonstrates that scientists are looking to apply research and scientific methodology to cannabis. This newfound rigor will help medical doctors and patients who are looking to cannabis and cannabis-related products to treat a host of medical problems.

Second, it is crucial for the hemp industry to continue evolving beyond the novelty — and soon-to-be commodity — of CBD. For a plant that has been closely aligned with humanity’s history, we still have a lot to learn about it. We at Spectrum Labs are proud to bring a legal, safe and fun aspect of the plant to consumers nationwide.

Where To Buy THCP?

Alt/D9, a THCP product, by Spectrum Labs
Alt/D9 is a new hemp-derived tincture containing THCP.

👨 To purchase TCHP for personal use, please visit Alt/D9 to view available THCP products.

🏪 If you are a cannabis, hemp CBD retailer or distributor and would like to provide THCP to your customers, please contact us.

Summary: The Future of THCP

The future of THCP is promising for consumers. The ability to have an experience very similar to THC from a legal, hemp plant has great potential for consumers. For hemp business owners, the ability to bring THCP, a novel cannabinoid to their customers can help to separate them from the pack and provide a unique, personal experience.

To stay up to date on future posts about THCP, novel cannabinoids, new podcast episodes, and hemp products, subscribe to the Spectrum Labs Newsletter

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#13. How men can deal with uncertainty in a strange Coronavirus world – with Dan Doty (Podcast)

Podcast episode: Dan Doty on how men can deal with uncertainty in a strange coronavirus world. The Hemp Startup Journey.

Listen on
Apple Podcast | Spotify | Google Podcasts

A lot of guys have this assumption or belief that, all along the way, all along the path of life that they need to know. They need to have things under control. They need to know what to do. They need to know where to go. They need to know what actions to take. And, that basic uncertainty, which is, which is just overwhelmingly true if we slow down enough to find it, is that during this time, we haven’t.

Dan Doty

Show Notes

This is one of the most in-depth conversations I’ve had on this podcast. Dan is the co-founder of EVRYMAN and the host of the EVRYMAN podcast. Some of the topics we cover during this episode:

  • How Dan helps men slow down enough to understand what’s happening in their own minds.
  • Owning the uncertainty and discomfort of the CORONAVIRUS pandemic.
  • What to do when our minds don’t want us to feel what’s really going on
  • What if guys didn’t have to live a life pretending that they didn’t feel
  • Men who can’t take a compliment
  • The relationship between the bottom line and how we treat people
  • How Dan pivoted from their men’s retreats after having to cancel 7 months worth of live events, which was 99% of their revenue
  • Can we still connect as humans without the face-to-face interaction
  • Dan’s suggestions on how to move forward
  • How to move from post traumatic stress disorder to post traumatic growth
  • How COVID19 situation changed Dan’s vision of the future

About Dan Doty

Dan Doty is a visionary entrepreneur, speaker, consultant, and the co-founder and voice of EVRYMAN. Dan is the host of the EVRYMAN podcast, and the former director of cult hit tv show MeatEater. He has been a 3-time guest on the Joe Rogan Experience, and twice on the Today Show. His role with EVRYMAN has been featured in the NYT, Men’s Health, GQ, and many more national and international publications. Dan is a man’s man with a well-developed tender side. He embodies the ability for men to be exactly who they are, and is sharing that message that there are as many definitions of manhood as there are men on the planet.

Full Episode Transcript

Jason De Los Santos: [00:00:00] Hey guys, Jason here with Spectrum Labs. I have another podcast episode. This one is with Dan Doty. He’s the founder of every man, and Dana is somebody that changed my life. We worked together a couple of years ago, and he just absolutely changed my life for the better. A really amazing man, and I just really appreciate and was really honored to be able to have him on this podcast, for a lot of reasons.

But one is that right now I’m filming this and I think it’s April. Can’t forgetting what it is, and we’re in the midst of the quarantine, lockdown, stay at home, whatever you want to call it. And there are a lot of emotions flying around, a lot of things going in their heads that we don’t exactly understand or know how to deal with it.

And Dan is one of these people who can get to the root of the problem really quickly, or the emotion or whatever that underlying thing is. And  not make you feel silly or stupid for feeling a certain way or for having thought of something a certain way and is good at helping you take that next step, whatever’s right for you.

So for that reason, I wanted to bring Dan on The Hemp Startup Journey. Man, we talk about a lot of different things. This is probably the most in depth conversations that I’ve had so far on the podcast, and I’m super happy to have had Dan on reading his bio. Real quickly for you to get a little, give you a little bit more context of Dan.

The Doty is a visionary, entrepreneur, speaker, consultant, and the cofounder and voice of every man that you can check out every man.com it’s EVR, Y M a N. Then is the host of the every man podcast. Definitely check that out so you can get a little bit more feel for Dan and what he talks about. And he’s the former director of coal hit TV show, a meat eater.

He has been a three-time guest on the Joe Rogan experience in twice, you know, the today show. His role with every man has been featured in the New York times, men’s health, GQ, and many more national and international publications. This is my favorite part about the about his bio. Dan is a man’s man with a well developed tender side.

He embodies the ability for men to be exactly who they are and then sharing that message that there are as many definitions of manhood as there are men on the planet. So in a time where we can’t, you know, as, as men in a time where we can’t. Take a club or a knife or a gun and, attack something –like a tiny Coronavirus — and solve it or fix it or pound it into the ground. T his is a great conversation, not just for men, but just for anybody, right? For men and women, when we’re not exactly sure about what’s happening. The biggest sentiment that I have is that there’s just a lot of uncertainty and they in helps to put this into context and, just some strategies about what’s going on.

And he showed us some of his stories as well, which is really powerful. So. Enough rambling for me. I hope that you guys take the chance to listen to Dan, hear what he has to say. You can go follow him on his different, social media accounts or of course on his website, but, to then listen and please share.

And here is Dan Doty.

Dan, thank you so much for joining me on this podcast today. I’ve been looking forward to this for, since I guess we’ve been trying to get this together for the past couple of weeks.

Dan Doty: [00:03:13] Yeah, well I’m excited too. It’s good to see your face again, Jason.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:03:15] Yeah. Good to see you. So, let’s see what, just to give some context, cause I don’t think I would do service to this and I’ll talk a little bit about how I got introduced to you. Can you explain what you do?

Dan Doty: [00:03:29] Yeah. I’m the co founder of an organization called every man. And, in my role as co founder, I’m also the host of  EVRYMAN podcast. And, I guess you could say I’m sort of chief visionary and voice of, of EVRYMAN , which is really organizing men into a movement, which has really taken off. And it’s, a global movement at this point. And really at the core, what we do is we help break open a new paradigm of how men, live, how they show up, what they feel, how they express themselves. So we are, we specifically are working against two main issues. One is the general state of repression of re repressed emotion.

Men don’t tend to feel or feel like they should be feeling. and the second is isolation, social isolation or human connection. statistically, men are struggling on these two fronts. And so what we do is we bring, bring men together, and with some simple guidance, we help them. Them get in touch with what they feel and give them tools to share that with each other and the world in a way that really fundamentally alters their life in a positive way. So that’s, that’s our bigger mission. And so I also coach, I’m an executive and leadership coach and, and I, I’m dedicated to this entire process of helping men specifically, really know who they really are and bring that to the world. Cause I think, it’s really needed.

This isn’t just about. Naval gazing or helping men improve themselves. My bigger mission, my bigger attention is always on the bigger picture. And I feel like, at this time in history. We are needed, like men are needed. it’s kind of to me, enough of being frozen enough of being confused enough of, you know, sitting back on our heels and not having our own minds and hearts, reigned, together.

So that’s, that’s kind of a large scale, but, that really is it.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:05:29] Yeah. And so you said a lot there, but some of the reasons that I want to bring you on here. Obviously right now we’re a, I guess a beginning or middle of April in 2020, throughout this whole kind of virus, covert 19 thing. And, there are a lot of emotions going around

Dan Doty: [00:05:44] in specifically for men,

Jason De Los Santos: [00:05:46] where we might not exactly know our place when.

Traditionally that you can speak to this, that we’re, we’re the protectors, right? And exactly. Protect well against, you know, something microscopic, you know, except for keeping people at home.

So we can talk about that. But just real quickly, just to give a little bit of additional context of folks. Is that the, so you and I worked together a little bit for a few months in, I guess it was like end of 18,

Dan Doty: [00:06:11] I think it was.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:06:12] And, the, the way that I, this is always interesting to me. So the way that I found out about you is I read a magazine article that Nate Green wrote about. That’s what it was. I remember that, that every man a retreat, I forget where it was.

Dan Doty: [00:06:28] Yellowstone,

Jason De Los Santos: [00:06:29] Yellowstone, and, I’m like, Oh, this seems interesting.

And the title was, I think it was, there will be tears, right?

Dan Doty: [00:06:36] Yeah.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:06:38] And I was outside of best buy, I was waiting for them to open cause I needed to buy something for the office. And I started reading the article and sure enough, by the middle of the article, I was like tearing up in my car, just for, just because of how, I dunno, just the topics that, that Nate was covering about what you do.

Was so touching and I’ve never heard of anybody talking about those kinds of things. And it wasn’t like, it wasn’t, we were, it wasn’t like, Oh, Hey, let’s, you know of, sit around and sing kumbaya. Like it was really emotional, but really powerful and really,

I don’t know if I ever got a chance to tell you this, but like you, you changed my life in a real significant way.

And hopefully we can talk about some of those, some of the things that you’re talking to your clients and your members about today. and so I figured we can start off talking about, what you’re seeing and what you’re talking to your clients about right now with coronavirus and whatever seems to be most prevalent, whether it’s the isolation thing, whether it’s the emotional turmoil, the word that comes to mind for me, it seems to keep coming back as uncertainty, but you might have a different term.

Dan Doty: [00:07:43] I mean, excuse me. I think if you had to pick one term for the. Pervading ethos of what men are bringing to the table. uncertainty would probably be the best word for it. And, and I think that is, that’s substantial in its own right. Right. Just this, I think, you know, everybody can check in with this if this is true for them, as I say it, but, generally speaking, the male culture, A lot of guys have this assumption or belief that, all along the way, all along the path of life that they need to know. They need to have things under control. They need to know what to do. They need to know where to go. They need to know what actions to take. And, that basic uncertainty, which is, which is just overwhelmingly true if we slow down enough to find it, is that during this time, we haven’t. We’ve been, our, our hands have been cuffed in a sense. We’ve been limited to be at home. I think uncertainty in terms of health is very real and, and scares people at a very deep level. but you add onto that economic uncertainty and, but you know where things are going.

So many men, have been furloughed or fully laid off or. Or just don’t know. Right. And, and again, just that’s, that’s what the uncertainty points do is just that fact of just not knowing. And so what we’ve been doing, I’ve been doing these global calls and drop in groups and men all around the world have been joining us.

And, the first way that we really work with that or speak to it is. We help guys slow down and that uncertainty can bring on a sense of panic or almost like a manic scramble, like, okay, I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. What am I going to do? What? So we’re just like, Hey, stop. You don’t know. Just feel that, you know, feel actually, feel what it feels like to, to be uncertain, to not know.

And just that little subtle, but very powerful action of slowing down enough. And, you know, we use our bodies and we use our emotions to get more clear with the experience we’re having. So an uncertainty for me. what happens for me when I feel really uncertained and ungrounded is like my chest clamps down.

I feel tight. I feel like my hands want to move. I kind of, I feel like I’m, you know, looking around quickly, my eyes are darting and. It’s just uncomfortable. I mean, that’s the first thing, like it’s just be honest. Being uncertain is really uncomfortable, very deeply uncomfortable. And so what is, it might not be the standard of practice, but when we can just own the fact that we’re uncomfortable and sit across from each other and be like, man.

This is terrifying. I like, I don’t know where my money’s coming from two months from now. I don’t know what to do about it. I feel like I have these ideas, but that panic, that sense of sort of scrambled in this, if I think if we pulled back or pulled up to 30,000 feet, that doesn’t tend to. Help very much.

And so what we’re doing is helping men land on the field with their feet on the ground and be like, okay, yeah, no idea. I’m terrified. And that may not sound helpful on the outset, but when you follow that and part part of what’s happening here and part of what we do at every man is. I use Wim Hoff and his ice bath, practice as an example here, because if we can learn how to relax and be present with excruciating, cold and pain, we can also learn how to relax and be present.

With being uncertain, right? And there’s a, there’s an analog here, right? So when we’re, when we are uncertain, our bodies go into a state, they do that. And when we slow down enough, it happens. It’s different for everybody, but it is real. And it might just be numb, right? We might check out and not feel anything, and that’s fine.

But what happens when we are deeply uncertain. Our bodies go into a state and the neurophysiology and the understanding of emotions and how they impact us as humans starts at the physiological level. So when we can breathe, slow down, speak to what’s happening in us, we begin to stabilize. We do. We begin to stabilize and have the ability to, To be present with what’s happening. And then from that point, we can start to take a look at actions to take. But that, that first part, it’s, I hope that comes across clear. I think it does, but it’s a step that we often miss.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:12:26] So when we were working together, you taught me about the, you call it a check-in.

so checking in with, you start off with asking questions about how are you feeling? Just physically, just, you know, what are you feeling? And then you, you get further and further into asking different questions. But, the first, I probably, the first few times it was really uncomfortable. I didn’t know what the hell you were driving.

You know? Honestly, it was really weird. But after a few, maybe three or four sessions, I could see the value and I could see that. I could feel the value of the first one. I didn’t know what it was. Right. I could sense that there was something there, but it’s, you know, I think what I’m taking away from what you’re saying, hopefully to translate it to some other folks that haven’t gone through this is to maybe be willing to go through that discomfort of kind of checking in, kind of sensing how they’re feeling, to then get to that other side of at least acknowledging what

that sensation is or what the emotions are so that you can decide whether you want them, maybe sit there or possibly do something about it. Is that the right?

Dan Doty: [00:13:26] Yeah. No, that’s, that’s perfect. I think, you know, another layer to add to it is that our minds and our bodies are kind of intrinsically wired, or at least we’re habituated into not wanting to be present, not wanting to be actually present with what’s real, with what’s real with reality.

Right? So if our true reality is that we are deeply uncomfortable. We’re actually terrified. And we’re, you know, freaking out on the inside like our minds. We don’t, we don’t want to feel that. We don’t, you know, and we don’t want other people to know that about us, right? We don’t want others to see that we’re not calm, collected, and, and moving forward.

So there’s a, what this really offers this checking in process is an opportunity to actually. Just be honest and transparent with reality. And so on the basic level, that’s actually what we’re doing and from that place, and that’s why we do this together. This is, this is a practice you can do on your own, but it’s, it’s deeply something magical and very important happens when we do this with other people.

And it doesn’t have to just be other men, right? Every man does this with men because there’s a specific pain in the world and we’re addressing a specific sort of population. And. Thing, but when we can like slow all the way down own reality and then we show up with other people and we speak that and we communicate that to others, it clicks on this, this social mammal.

We’re also, we’re social mammals right at the, at the basis that we have evolved as social animals. It clicks on this automatic connection between ourselves and others automatically. It’s just, it’s like a, call it like an emotional wifi. So if we’re sitting here and we’re just bullshitting and we’re just having, you know, surface level talk, it’s great.

It’s what we do. It’s nothing. But if I can, like when we first called here, I shared with you that last last night, my grandpa passed away and. So I’m feeling a lot right now. Right now I’m feeling grief. I’m feeling sadness. I’m feeling love for my dad. I’m feeling love for my kids. I’m feeling, a lot of these things on top of a lot of other realities that I’m dealing with too.

But even just as we, as we first checked in, as we first talked, I felt it was important to tell you that because it is my truth right now. And it’s not now that I just get to say it and just get to state it, you know where I’m at, you know where I’m at. And so, It offers us a solid ground to communicate from a solid ground to interact from.

And now, if I was like weeping terribly, and you know, if I was out of control and couldn’t manage my emotions or, or was not okay, I’d just say that and be like, Hey, I’m not okay. I can’t do this podcast. Right. But, I’m guessing, and I don’t wanna make any assumptions, but I’m guessing as I shared that with you.

You felt a human, a pang of humanity. And I’m guessing it connected us a little more deeply. Right? And so that connection, that automatic empathy, that automatic compassion for one another, it’s always available. It’s crazy. It’s literally like this thing, like we walk around interacting with each other all the time, but when we dropped down to that next layer of really just truth, that’s all it is, we’d begin to naturally have each other’s backs. We begin to naturally collaborate. We begin to naturally, Help each other get the best, get what we need in life. And it’s, I just, I mean, to put a really bluntly, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a pretty incredible way to, to relate to others. It’s meaningful.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:17:12] It is. And you, you’re good about encouraging your members or clients or just people to, to share those with, with family or friends. But what if somebody is, let’s say, fearful. Of sharing their emotions or like they’re not used to it with the every man, I forget what you call that, the social app that you have now. Is that, is that a good place to start?

Dan Doty: [00:17:36] Somebody that hasn’t been told about it? It definitely is. So, yeah. Right now the, what we’re offering to the public are free drop in groups and free global calls. So just a place for men to drop in virtually through Zoom, and get together with guys and hear about this and practice this and get a sense of what this is.

Really is, I’m guessing most, if not all guys are fearful of sharing their emotions, right? Not everybody. I mean, some guys that’s part of their, their, their normal day to day, but, you should be scared, right? I mean, it’s not, it’s not normal. It’s something different. It’s, it’s not how we were trained to be as men.

again, that doesn’t cover everybody, but, it is at its essence. It is a scary. It’s a scary moment. It really is. It’s, it’s, it is, it is a pure act of vulnerability is what it is. And that is, by its nature, scary, right? I don’t want to sugar coat that whatsoever.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:18:33] The, the first call that you get that you had on Zoom was, I think it was 149 guys.

Yeah. Something like that. It was pretty amazing and kudos to you for putting that together so quickly. And you know, going back to that, that men and emotions that you asked, I think of her to three or four guys to share, just sort of what they’re feeling. And then again, the way that you, that your term is, you asked some guys to check in, just share how they’re feeling and yeah. I’m still trying to work on removing that sort of stereotypical, like manhood of like, you know, the burly dude who’s just like a man and doesn’t share emotions. It’s just like

big and strong and the protector. And there were some of those guys who were on there, and granted you can only see their face a little bit, but they can still, they still had that image of just.

Yeah, like a man’s man. And they shared very openly what they were

going through and you know quickly about what was happening in their life or just what they were they were sensing or what they were feeling or fearful or whatever it was. And the relate-ability to that was just amazing. And in a strange way was, was really comforting.

Dan Doty: [00:19:44] Yeah, I would love, yeah. Tell me a little more about that comfort that I brought, cause that’s huge. It’s important. And I think you could speak to it.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:19:50] I mean, I think the fact that, you know, just like I’ve been going through all sorts of emotions since this whole thing started, just, you know, for, for myself, for our business, for family.

and I think having that. You. There has been a lot of different emotions and fears, and one has been like, manly am I stepping up to the plate and being whatever, like, you know, the sense of like, Manliness of protect or hurt or, or whatever that was. And I think listening to some of these guys saying like, Hey, yeah, I’m scared, more fearful, or here’s what’s happening.  it helped me see that at least, you know, like, I wasn’t the only one.

Dan Doty: [00:20:24] Yep. Right. And

Jason De Los Santos: [00:20:25] not that I want anybody else to feel shitty, but I think just the fact that there’s somebody else out there, like I’m not the only one. Right. It’s almost

Dan Doty: [00:20:32] like you’re describing what I call, it’s like actually the lowest hanging fruit of both of what we do at every man.

It’s the lowest hanging fruit, but also, I believe, it might be some of the lowest hanging fruit for, you know, self improvement, but also cultural growth, to be honest with you. And to name it. Most guys walk around thinking that what they feel is somehow unique. Yeah. It’s just not, it’s just not. And so I, I’m remembering back in, it may have been on that first call or maybe the second one, but this guy named Corey, Corey McCarthy is from upstate New York.

He was in prison for a long time. He’s so, obviously. A tough guy, right? Like as tough as it gets, really. and when he opens his mouth and shares his truth with people, he’s just, I’m just, I’m bringing him up as an example because he’s especially powerful at it, but it just, everybody can just freaking relax a little bit deeper.

For a guy like that, or for any guy to say, yeah, I’m actually really fucking scared. I’m really terrified. I’m really scared. Everybody else who hears that and sees that, there’s a part of them inside that’s like, “let’s go!”

You mean to tell me it’s okay to be scared? Are you? Are you, you’re actually, and, and it just, it happens instantly. It’s instantly, it’s like, that guy’s scared to, Oh man, I gotta to be scared too. I’m scared. It’s just what you can take that with almost any experience or feeling or emotion, whatever it is.

And it’s this. It, it flips. It literally instantaneously flips the paradigm of what courage means of what leadership means, of what manhood means. It flips it in that instant and it’s, it’s like, Oh God, what if I didn’t have to pretend my entire life that I didn’t feel, but I actually felt it. It’s like, guys are.

You know, imagine I got any man’s life as a movie, and, but it’s an ongoing movie. It’s an 80 year, a hundred year movie, ideally. And in that movie, there are times of, you know, at, there’s probably a phase of the movie that’s the hero movie superhero movie, but there’s also a phase of it, of the sad movie where you’re.

Father dies and you go through grief and there’s a phase of the movie that there’s a romantic comedy or whatever, right? All of the different flavors of life. But most men have been ingrained to try to act like they’re in a superhero movie at all times, which is just kind of like, wow. How practical is that?

You know, like how honest and practical is that? And that’s a little bit of a drama visitation, but I think it, it makes the point that, Yeah. And once we’re not alone, once we can clear that up, once we can get past that, which we rarely do, Oh man, can we get together and heal what’s inside and go after what we want and all of that.

So I think it’d be amazing one day to find some kind of technology that could measure the amount of energy we spend faking it or repressing, or, you know. Pretending.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:23:57] Do you think that for, or let me ask you this question. For the guys that decide to, for the men that decide to share these things, does that in some way take away your man card?

Dan Doty: [00:24:09] Well, that’s the thing that th that that’s, yeah, but you said that, that’s like the, the, now it reissues you a real one. It’s like, it’s like, Oh, it burns your old one and and says like, Oh, here, here’s what, here’s what a Man Card actually should, could be. It shouldn’t be. Right? Yeah. But yeah, that, that, that is a great cultural tool, right. The man card, right. That’d be for the, yeah. What would the, what would that man card be based on? Toughness. 

Jason De Los Santos: [00:24:42] Cowboy

Dan Doty: [00:24:44] winning. John Wayne. Yeah. Basically like being the, being the dominant alpha male with his, you know, mastery of all, you know, Which again, I think like certain times in life, hell yes, right.

And certain times in life, like, let’s exercise that, that’s fine. There’s nothing wrong with that. but to pretend or to think that that’s, that’s the best way to live every moment of our life. That’s just, that’s just. That’s unfortunate. Yeah.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:25:13] the other day I saw a commercial, or I guess it must’ve been a few weeks ago, I saw a commercial for one of the giant jewelry companies and it was sort of party.

And then all of a sudden they cut to a couple and the woman kneels down and she proposes to the man. And my initial reaction was like,

what is this? This is crazy. And then

a couple of seconds later, I’m thinking like, well, I mean. This is sort of something we just sort of made up over many, many years.

Right? Like, what is wrong with that? There’s nothing wrong with it, but the initial reaction was just wait a minute. I like that. That doesn’t belong there. That’s weird. Or that’s, you know, like she’s not the man. I’m like, what’s happening here? and I’m wondering if you’re seeing a lot of folks, I don’t know.

React or, I guess. Recognizing that some of the gender roles that we have have been sort of culturally made up over time. Like is that a difficult thing for people to kind of get over?

Dan Doty: [00:26:08] It depends. It depends on who they are, for sure. Yeah. I think for, for probably a good chunk of the population, yeah. I think that definitely it’s, you know, I, I gotta admit though, I live in, I live in a bubble as we all do, right?

And the only place where I see, people really struggling with that in a, in a strong way happens to be in the comments of articles in the comments of YouTube, in the comments of publicly posted, You know,

Jason De Los Santos: [00:26:37] social media and stuff like that,

Dan Doty: [00:26:39] but our social media mine, so I mean, like I, nobody ever tells me directly that like, it’s very rare, so I don’t see it, but I do know that, yeah, there’s a, it is, this is a hard pill.

So, yeah. Let me make it a little more subtle. So while certainly I’m sure out there, many people are offended, scared, freaked out. They, they don’t want to see, you know, this shift. and that’s, you know, that’s cool. I don’t need to try to convince them. There still is a, there are many different levels of aversion to men being, emotionally, fluent.

Right. And so part of it is just in not being sure. Right. So people hear about this and it causes a feeling in them, and they’re like, huh, I don’t know. I don’t know. You know, I give a TEDx talk a couple of years ago and I cried openly in the middle of it. I didn’t expect to, I didn’t plan to, but I did. And yeah, people have shared some of their experiences while watching it, and I think it’s hard.

It’s hard for people to see a, I’m a burly guy, I’m a burly guy with a beard, and like, you know, I kind of looked like a bit of a Viking. it is, it kind of, it kind of, it’s, it’s uncomfortable for people to see the reality or even play with this reality. So, so, yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s, and on the other flip side, there’s all a lot of people out there that are, that hear about what we’re doing.

They’re like. That’s it. That’s, that’s, that’s the way that’s we get, you know, like report, pour the gas on the fire. and we’ve been riding a pretty massive wave of positive energy and response.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:28:20] and just to interject for a second, so the things that you’re talking about, they’re not like, you’re not making it up in your room.  Like you’re, you’re not just in your house, sort of scheming and theorizing, like these are things that you’re applying to with a lot of people. You’ve been doing a version of this for 20 plus years.

Dan Doty: [00:28:38] Yeah. 20 years about,

Jason De Los Santos: [00:28:39] and plus the number of people that you’ve either led in small groups or in retreats.

I mean, the hundreds or maybe thousands.

Dan Doty: [00:28:48] Thousands for sure.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:28:48] Yeah. Yeah. So, so just, for folks that are listening, you know, I’m sure there. Might be a few folks who are like, ah, I’m not really sure about this. Like he’s probably just making shit up in his house. you know, this is proven like you’re, you’re showing results with people.

Dan Doty: [00:29:03] Absolutely. I mean, the, yeah, the proof is in the pudding. Right. But the, the truth, and I, I won’t. I won’t try to make it appear more, well, I won’t dramatize this, but, unequivocally every single event, every group, everything that I’ve ever run, in the 99 point something percentile, This simply improves lives of men for the better. They become better fathers. They become closer to their kids, better partners. it just actually what it does is it is it, it relieves a certain type of mental and emotional, pressure that builds up for men that, that builds up. And then comes out. And a lot can come out in a lot of different negative ways from depression to alcoholism, suicide at the high end of things.

but yeah, our, our retreats at the end of them, man, I mean that you can’t, you can’t frame it other way any other way. Then these men have had a deeply life changing experience. And the basic practices are so simple when you hear the basic practice. So here’s what we do. We get together and we slow down.

So that we can get a sense of what’s up. We put our attention into what we feel, and then we start practicing sharing it, and then we follow that path over and over and go deeper and deeper into what we feel we own, who we are. We get to talk about, you know, the things that have hurt us the most. We talk about things we’re most scared of, but we also talk about our positive qualities.

We get to own the good things. You know how many men out there. Can’t take a compliment, can’t allow themselves to feel proud. They hamstring themselves in their life by not owning their good quality. These two. So again, we, we’re walking around life playing these roles, playing these images that we think other people want us to be.

What we’re actually doing is helping men own who they are, like fundamentally who they are, their own experience. And that’s so it’s, it’s not. At its core. It’s actually, it’s very simple. It’s one of the simplest thing. What it feels like is that, there’s like a sense of coming home to oneself. It’s like, man, I, I didn’t necessarily know I could just be myself, you know? And, yeah. I don’t know if I answered your question. There’s thousands, and thousands of men have come through us. If I’ve worked with thousands and thousands of men before every man, and, I wouldn’t be, I certainly wouldn’t be here on this podcast yakking about it if it didn’t fucking work.

Yeah.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:31:36] So let’s, we can talk about work a little bit. so most of the folks that listen to this are entrepreneurs or business owners in the hemp and the cannabis space. And how are you guiding your clients, as far as dealing with, let’s say, stuff at work rather than you, you figure how business owners and maybe managers or leaders of organizations, as men, how should we be?

I dunno, I, I won’t put any words, but like, you know, how should we be working with our coworkers during this time of great uncertainty?

Dan Doty: [00:32:05] Well, I think the, I think the basic supply here too. So we’re seeing a lot of men who, you know, the first wave was uncertainty. The first wave was, what the hell? What do I do?

and depending on the unique situation, it depends, you know, for some men just slow down, relax and breathe through this and see what happens is the only thing to do, right. But for a lot of, a lot of the entrepreneurial set, the business owners said, I’ve actually been party party to, and an immense amount and an immense wave, I would say, of a proactive and creative thinking.

Right. And, I really do think that this is an opportunity, globally, but I think business owners are in a unique place here too. Get a gut check, right? To get a gut check to, to, to, to think about questions of what security actually means. To think about, the relationship between the bottom line and how we treat people.

Right. And, and like the, the stresses of having to lay people off, the stresses of, of all of this. the human part of what’s going on is, is a big part. And then also, you know, I think this in a sense, what’s happening as a wave of really reckoning with what the future is going to look like, which, which is different.

And I’ll just speak from my own experience right now. We have gone into a fundamental pivot at every man. We had to cancel seven months worth of live events, which is to date 99% of our revenue, right? So we’re sitting here like. Completely, dry. And the opportunity came and, you know, I think we did it as founders.

We did a meeting. We didn’t ever man meeting and we got honest. We got real with what we said. And then within 45 minutes, we made the call to launch our online platform and our membership, which has always been our plan, but we’ve never had the opportunity. We’ve never had the time and the bandwidth to do it.

And so I’m seeing, so a lot of friends who have, you know, human oriented businesses and a lot of entrepreneurs are in our network. And, I think that’s. What I’ve seen clearly are two things. One, the pivot to virtual delivery for all kinds of things, and it’s been going well, really well for a lot of people that like, wow, I had no idea.

Like what have I been getting on a plane for every, you know, twice a week for the past seven years. This actually really works. We can connect. And, and so that’s, that’s actually huge. We can connect right now this way, there’s a wave of connection happening because of this, because we’re just not running around like chickens with our heads cut off and we’re not like doing our normal thing.

We have, I think, you know, it’s pretty magical. I used to be, I was the first one to, I was adamant. I didn’t want to do every man groups online. Adamant. I felt like in person connection is what we’re all missing. We have to have it. It’s crucial. I couldn’t believe differently now, like the, the, the value that is being generated.

and even with my corporate clients do my leaders that I coach to, like this is a time of, of fast change. But I also do notice that the human connection element is, is going deeper and being more efficient, which I think are too. Critical, critical things to pay attention to, we can connect quicker. And if, and that’s why some of this sort of communication technology that we use at every man I think is really helpful right now, which is that let’s not beat around the bush.

I’m going to tell you exactly what’s up right now cause we don’t have that much time. And then we’re going to lay it out there and then we’re going to, we’re going to together in as truthful as possible. We’re going to work on an action plan to move forward. So, you know, I think suggestions for people:

One, if you’re overwhelmed and freaked out the first before you do anything, get some freaking help. Get som e support. Have a conversation. Call a mentor. Get a coach like, whatever. You know, get yourself a space to feel what you actually feel. And. Fundamentally, that’ll, that’ll like anchor you into a more powerful course of action.

and then leaning on each other in these times. even when we can’t do it physically, it’s kind of a joke. They’re like, we can’t actually lean on each other, but I do believe that, What an opportunity for, for creative, I guess, efficient, efficient is the second word that comes creative and efficient, practices, right?

Like, there is something to do if, like, if things, if when all is lost, you know, or things seem like they, like, what do you have left to lose? Right, right. so hopefully that, some of that lands.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:36:49] Yeah. and so we thought, you mentioned reaching out to folks. So what’s that? How does somebody get access to the app?

Dan Doty: [00:36:58] Well, I’m not gonna push them through the app right now cause we’re about to, to jump to a whole new platform powered by mighty networks. And we’re going to be delivering things in a new way. Cause this is the way. So we had an app for a short term in between. but we are. I’m pivoting to a longterm home on this mighty networks platform.

So the best way they can get help with us right now is go to our homepage, right on the front of the homepage. Evryman.com there is the, the button to get connected. And you can, you can dive into one of our support groups, free support groups. You can just click calendar, click a meeting and register for one of them.

beyond that, I’d just say, but you get on our newsletter too, cause we’re going to be in the next probably 10 days, ideally. or. Know, a couple of weeks, three weeks at the latest, we’re going to be launching a far more substantial opportunity to get involved. But I also mean just call your dad. I just, I mean, just, you know, these are the times to really, Well, and let me speak to that because it’s really crucial and I meant to get on one of your earlier questions, but, we all know what post traumatic stress disorder is. PTSD, right? When challenging situations come up, when, when we’re put to the fire, One of the things that can happen to us is we can get traumatized by it and then it can stick with us and it can take us out and it can do all kinds of things.

There’s another option called post-traumatic challenge or posttraumatic growth, let’s call it post traumatic growth, which is seeing a challenge and, and, and like walking firmly into it and using it to, to grow from, to, expand to all of these things. And so there’s one critical, important element, and this comes from, actually a great guy to check out.

His name’s George Faller. He’s a therapist. He was a, he was a fireman at 9/11 at the, at the point of the day it happened. And he was also, at the time it happened, he was training to be a couples therapist of all things. And so he became the GoTo therapist for many of the first responders, at ground zero.

And so his, how he can speak to this is just super eloquent, but I’ll paraphrase. The one difference in PTSD, turning PTSD into post traumatic growth is doing it together, is being connected and being part of a human squad or team or, or you know that that togetherness and that’s how we’re wired as humans.

We’re wired to band together and go into challenge. It’s always arrived, you know, Dan together, find food band together, you know, protect our food band together to move on. We needed to move, right? And it’s, we are wired that way, and when we do feel supported and a part of something larger, then we can take on these challenges in a completely different way that can be deeply fruitful.

And, you know, we have, it remains to be seen for EVRYMAN, whether this pivot works, right? I mean, there’s risk at play here too, but, We’ve been doing it together and we’ve been powerfully moving through this time. Yeah. So,

Jason De Los Santos: [00:39:57] One of the, I’m just going back to, to some, the conversation at the beginning. one of the things that I’ve felt a couple of times is, the sort of the unfairness of things. so last night we had crazy thunderstorms here, and I thought the roof of our house was going to just fly off. I’ve never felt anything like this here in Asheville. And so I, I, I had, I didn’t sleep whatsoever, had sort of these like awoken nightmares of insurance bills and, you know, like all the horrible stuff that could happen to my family and whatnot.

and then this morning the power went out cause you know, there were down power trees and power lines all over the place. and just that addition to what we’re currently going through. And, you know, being at home and my wife taking care of both of our kids, it was like, you know, like a shit layer on top of another shit layer. and it was kind of getting me down, today. and I started to consider it.

I don’t think you never ever talked about this, but. If I were to be in space and looking down at planet earth, I would probably be thinking like, Oh, like it looks like it always looks right. Like, you know, things are just happening as they normally do.  Not because someone or something is making these sort of, penalizing you or, or making these things happen to you. and I wonder if that has anything related to what I think you, you’ve talked about Siddhartha before and. ontogeny and sort of like, just the cycle of life, that it’s not, you talked a little bit about this before, about the, the, the movie, right?

You have great times and bad times. I wonder if you can speak to that, if that relates to you a little bit.

Dan Doty: [00:41:42] It really does. And, and I’ll try to be gentle and kind about it, but, and this is less, this is less EVRYMAN ethos. This is just Dan Doty speaking. I have concerned for many, if not most of the people in our culture as being deeply and grossly disconnected from.

The reality of, of life. Like we have a button, we have bought into our food system, our culture, our technology, as, as if it, there’s no chance it could ever go away. I think that is just fundamentally flawed. And I think that, you know, that could be a type of thing that sends somebody in a panic. And that’s not the intention, but the, the veneer of safety is thin.

Right? And, and. I’ve spent thousands of days out in the wilderness. And I think part of that is we’re, we’re deeply disconnected from the life cycle. We are, we, you know, we, we imagined that, you know, death is just this thing that’s, you know, I guess it’s going to happen to me. It’s going to happen to everybody, but it’s, you know, we don’t live with it in mind.

You know, we, we keep that hidden. And I’m not, in no way am I trying to say we’re all gonna die. I don’t think we are. And I think that are, we’re going to right the ship, and I think we’re going to be okay. But I do think there’s, there’s many, many layers of wake up calls that. It could be real here. And there’s a sense of entitlement, too

I think people are, well, I, this is all we got. You know, like, what do you mean I couldn’t go to the grocery store? I’m like, are you kidding me? Like, that’s just some God given. Right? Like, that couldn’t, couldn’t change. That’s crazy. You know? What do you mean? I couldn’t like my job? Go. It’s like, and so it’s not like I’m sitting here every day before this event, you know, just like, I’m just as connected to the, the reality is, you know, it’s not like I have a store, a bunker of food and all, you know, that’s, that’s not my reality either. But, I, I do hope that this period of time, Is something of a helpful and sobering experience to, recognize that there are a lot of us living on this planet right now, like a whole lot, and, you know, the way that we’re feeding ourselves and getting calories in our body and staying safe and healthy and stuff.

I think, I just hope that this becomes a proactive, a moment of proactive. it’s coming together, you know, and, and, and, yeah. I believe humans are fundamentally good, and, and I, I’m sure that they are. And I think I feel a lot of hope, honestly. I’m feeling a lot of hope about what can happen. And, I guess.

What I hope doesn’t happen is that this happens and then we all just kind of go right back to sleep, right? We all just kind of, you know, take the pill, go back to sleep and imagine that a hall man, glad that’s over. You know, nothing else is going to happen again. You know? so again, I’m trying to, I don’t want to be alarmist or anything here, but, but this does, this resonates deeply with me.

I feel like, some practical thinking could be employed.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:44:48] You have a really clear vision about what you want to see. And I think your timeline is like 20 years or so. And you mentioned that in some of your emails and so many of your, your speaking engagements, has this time period changed that vision for you?

Dan Doty: [00:45:01] It has, it has bolstered what I feel is a sense of urgency for sure. or it’s, it’s, yeah, it’s bolstered my passion for sure. I feel like what I, what I wasn’t. Comfortable saying publicly before, I’m getting more comfortable saying now, which is this, and I feel like, I just had a guy in the pod, every man podcast last week.

His name’s Ryan Inglehart. He’s the founder of a NGO called kiss the ground. And what they do is they are, bringing regenerative agriculture. PR processes to farmers and to backyard people. And based on the scientific knowledge that it’s very possible in 60 years that our planet will no longer be able to feed the people here 60 years.

My kids are, I’m looking at it right now at the window. One’s one and one’s three, that’s firmly in their lifetime. You know, and again, not to be alarmist here, but. What I’m sobering up to is that some serious, serious work needs to be done in the next chunk of human history. And, you know, and I, and I’m aware that political bias might change how you feel about this, and that’s fine. But I think men are, frozen. I think that there’s this, I think one of the biggest and, ripest, resources that our planet has is locked up in a bunch of dudes, millions and millions, tens of millions, a hundred millions, maybe billions of guys who are, stuck, frozen, you know, squeaking by in life.

I think we need, when we like, we need to, we need to step up, you know? and not that men are gonna save the planet, but we need to do our part, right? We need to do our part, both, both locally with our families and in our businesses and everything. And, I’m slightly uncomfortable even saying this on the podcast here.

It’s, it’s, it’s. you know, I’m a, I’m a little, not embarrassed, but just, I guess, nervous that, to set such big stakes here. Right? And, and I don’t, I don’t know that this is going to be like the main message and all that, but I guess just being honest, it’s where I’ve been. it’s where my mind and heart, and I’ve kind of been reading lately.

I guess if you know, if none of that’s true and survival’s easy, you know, fine. I’m willing to be, Haven’t been outspoken and be wrong, but, if this means my, my children’s lives, then I’m feeling quite urgent, I guess. Yeah.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:47:35] I guess this is, this is an opportunity, right? Like even despite those concerns that they could be great outcomes. and even if it, that’s not exactly the outcome. If we don’t make changes, the fact that we’re. That we would be working towards making some of these positive changes and know with men and sort of this the feeling sort of locked into who we’re supposed to be as opposed to who we really are like that can bring some really positive changes. Despite anything that could come in the future.

Dan Doty: [00:48:07] I love that you nailed it. Yeah. Reframe it is an opportunity and I think that’s very real. You know, I think there’s an opportunity right now, to, to change the trajectory. And again, I make it personal. It’s about my kids, you know, and other people’s kids do this.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:48:22] awesome. We covered a lot. is there anything else that you think we should go over?

No,

Dan Doty: [00:48:29] I, I feel, I feel that this, yeah, just at this moment is it, it feels ripe, right? It feels good. It feels like we live on a farm here in Southern California, and my favorite thing is there’s a row of guava trees and for whatever reason, they fruit at different times throughout the year. Right? But, I just have this image of like the perfect guava. It gets like a deep yellow, and you can just tell you see it on the vine. You see it on the tree hanging there. I call my God, that’s the one. That one is perfect.

And I have that sense about, about these times right now. And I think that can be true locally. And I also do think it can be on a cultural level here. I do feel like there is some sort of, at the moment is ripe and, and I’ve, I mean, you know, maybe to take the, the, the metaphor a little further is that ripe fruit, if it doesn’t get picked, you know, it’s, it’s going, it’s starting to rot, it’s going to fall off.

and. Yeah. I’m just hoping we can all, we can all sort of harvest this time to its greatest capacity. And, that might be again, to, to not go to the superhero mode of thinking that might be very small. It might be something that, you know, I have felt, My own family during this time. Simply the fact of me not being on the road and no vision, right?

There’s no, I have no flights booked, you know, for, for as long as I can look. Right now, I am home. The quality of our family’s life together has. It feels like the hockey stick curve that I didn’t even know. Right. And I have a great family life, man. We were connected, but the, the time spent, my personal values are being really rewritten and codified now in a way that’s, that’s new. And I feel like a lot of old stuff is, is sloughing off. I really do. And I’ve been working hard at this for a long time to stay real and present. Right. But this, this is something of a, of a weight. That’s it. It’s, it’s, it’s wild. It’s wild too.

Are, I mean, even very specific things. So like even how we, how we spend our money. Like we had been working hard on being smart for a long time, but now like we just cut a bunch of stuff and it hasn’t went away. It’s like, wow, well, they need that. That’s crazy. I’m sure. Thought we needed that before.

Right. And, and childcare, that was, that was this big, huge hurdle. We were scared. Like, we won’t have any time for ourselves. And, yes, it’s. It’s a lot, right? But my God, is it paying off? Like I’m looking at our little yard. In the past week, we planted three raised beds of the garden. We built a picnic table.

we ordered some cha. I mean, and these are, these are may smart sound like small things, but for whatever reason. It has allowed us to settle into our reality here on, and, and businesses the same way. But like, we are just like, we are, the things that aren’t working are falling away. And the, it’s like we’re being guided to, to what’s actually most important.

And when it comes down to it, that’s okay. That’s one of the most beautiful things that I can imagine. That’s, that’s what lights me up. Like what if we can live our lives paying far more attention to what’s really important and let the other stuff go. And I think, you know, like coaching helps, like men’s group had, like, we can do that on our own to some extent, but I feel like when the bigger picture steps in and things that we can’t control, have a seat at the table, it’s, it’s even a different ball game.

You know, so, and I think that that’s scary. You know, change is scary. And, this woman that she talked to right after me at the TEDx talk that I did, and she talks about resilience and, resilience being her strategy was that, listen, you’re going to die. People are going to get sick. Life is going to be really hard a lot.

And it’s also really incredible. A lot. So pay more attention to the really incredible stuff. It’ll balance out the shit. There you go. That’s resilience. And I’ve really taken that to heart and I feel like that’s, like we’re having these little dance parties together and we’re like cooking our food with more care.

And, I don’t know if there’s something, there’s something really, I think when you can let go into the process and let things fall away. you know, I, I think there’s a lot of, a lot of real good as well.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:53:08] Thanks for sharing that, Dan.

Dan Doty: [00:53:09] Yeah.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:53:10] I, Yeah, I think we’ll leave it there. That’s probably a good place to end it.

Dan Doty: [00:53:14] I’ll

Jason De Los Santos: [00:53:14] put some, your links and places that people can connect with you on the show notes, but I imagine just the EVRYMAN podcast. Is there any other place people should reach out?

Dan Doty: [00:53:24] Evryman podcast. evryman.com a newsletter drive to newsletters. Great. And, Yeah, I mean, we’re on Instagram and all those things too, awesome.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:53:32] Yeah. Definitely encourage anybody that, were any of your insights. If it resonated even just ever so slightly to just at least check out the website, there was nothing, you know, no harm can come to you

if, if you check it out. So, thank you Dan, and, really appreciate everything that you do.

what, what you’ve done for me and what you do for, so many other men and their families out there. So thank you.

Dan Doty: [00:53:55] Yeah. Thanks, Jason.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:53:58] ——————————-

Hey guys, and before you go, this is Jason from Spectrum Labs. Please be sure to visit us on the web as the spectrum labs.com for any show notes and links discussed in the podcast.

Also, remember to click the subscribe button wherever you may be listening from, so you get notified when our next episode comes out and tune in next show and have a fantastic day. .

About Spectrum Labs

At Spectrum Labs, we source local hemp and extract high-quality Full Spectrum Hemp extracts that even our families can use.

Spectrum Labs can manufacture these full-spectrum hemp extracts:

*Crude

*Distillate

*Tinctures

*Gummies

*Lotions

*Custom formulations

To learn more about Spectrum Labs, contact us or contact us at (828) 229-7952

Asheville, NC

12. Why Branding is Crucially Important in an Uncertain CBD and Hemp World – with Morris Beegle (podcast)

Episode Notes

In this wide-ranging conversation we discuss:

  • Lessons Morris learned in the Music Industry and has successfully applied to the CBD Hemp industry
  • Why he chooses to operate 12 brands for his different ventures
  • How he has shifted from hosting in-person conferences to online
  • Minor cannabinoids like CBDP and THCP
  • How to think about CBD hemp diversification for your company
  • His suggestions on mindset to get through the current world pandemic of COVID19
  • Thoughts on novel cannabinoids like CBG and CBN and what he thinks about their future potential
  • What he thinks hemp cultivators and farmers should do for next growing season
  • and more…

Listen on
Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Play

About Morris Beegle

👉⚠Check out the NoCo Hemp Earth Week Virtual Conference

Leading cannabis/hemp advocate and entrepreneur, Morris Beegle is the co-founder and president of the WAFBA (We Are For Better Alternatives) family of brands, including the NoCo Hemp Expo, the world’s most comprehensive hemp-centric conference and exposition. WAFBA also includes Silver Mountain Hemp Guitars, a manufacturer of boutique hemp guitars cabinets and components, Tree Free Hemp, a hemp paper and printing company, Let’s Talk Hemp, a comprehensive digital media platform, and several others. Spanning education, advocacy, manufacturing and entertainment, Beegle’s endeavors are both pioneering and award winning. Travelling several continents, Beegle regularly engages audiences in N.A., Europe, UK, Nepal and beyond, appearing at dozens of events and conferences each year.

Connect with Morris at www.MorrisBeegle.com

Episode Transcript

Jason De Los Santos: Morris, welcome. Thank you so much for joining me today. Hope you’re doing all right.

Morris Beegle: [00:03:09] Doing great. Thanks, Jason. Appreciate you having me on.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:03:12] Fantastic. So I see you have your musical instruments in the back. I’m sure we’ll get to talk about that company in the background. and I thought we’d start off with this. I always like to ask people to sort of how they got to, to the hemp and the cannabis industry and, can we start there?

Do you know, how did you, and why did you decide to get into this crazy industry?

Morris Beegle: [00:03:33] So I’ve been, cannabis user for quite some time, really since high school, recreational cannabis user. And I was never really part of the industry up until about 2012 I’ve been in the music industry before that, since the late eighties through 2010 I had a music production company doing everything from studio coordination to a CD, a DVD manufacturing and packaging merchandise.

Artists, management, music licensing, kind of a Jack of all trades, master of some, which was really more of the, the printing and packaging side of things. And when I first started getting into that back in the mid nineties having my own big production company, I worked for a large music video company before that.

when I moved back, I moved back to Fort Collins from California. And there was a company called the Hemper wears no clothes, that was a hip store in Fort Collins and they had hip clothing and hip oddity care and rope and soap and all of that stuff. And at that time I got to know the owner pretty well and, and read the Jack hair book.

The emperor wears no clothes, which is where the store obviously got her name from and, and became familiar with him and actually did some tee shirts and hats for some bands that I was working with. Wanting to have some him apparel, but really was not into the hemp industry at that point. And the music industry itself and being part of the physical side of things with CDs and DVDs and the packaging side of things.

Once the internet came along and you had Napster and mp3.com and then all these file sharing networks like pirate Bay and demon OID where people could go on and actually. Download entire discographies that really impacted the music industry, particularly the physical media industry, which was my bread and butter, and from let’s say, 2005 to 2010 record stores are going out of business distributors, manufacturers, all that stuff.

Really got decimated during that time and people couldn’t make up the difference by digital downloads and streaming and all that. So I was really looking for a different Avenue to take my talents and find out what I was going to do next in my life. And the medical cannabis industry really picked up in Colorado in 2009 2010 dispensary’s were opening up everywhere, and then there was a push for.

Recreational adult use in 2012 with amendment 64 and within that legislation, there was the opportunity for farmers here in Colorado to start growing hemp. And this was before the 2014 farm bill that launched these hemp pilot programs across the country and being kind of on the front lines, it’s like.

There’s something interesting. I’m familiar with HAMP and you know, apparel and hip paper. And so I reached out to a friend of mine, Elizabeth night and says, Hey, you want to start a hemp company? And we could start doing him merchandise. And so in 2012 we started Colorado, him company, and it really started off as a merchandise company doing tee shirts and hats.

And we worked with some other. Manufacturers that were out there doing wallets and beanies and shoes and backpacks. It was company called hippies, and another company called him mania, and another company called wicked him footwear. So we partnered with them and started distributing their stuff and selling your stuff to local retailers.

And, and that’s really what . Kicked off everything. From there we found a hemp paper company and started doing him paper printing and doing business cards and posters, and then we started doing HIPAA bands. In 2014 we launched NOCO hemp expo. Again, coming from the music industry, being involved with a lot of different aspects.

I was involved with concerts and festivals and live shows and booking and all of that stuff. So that’s really how it got going was, you know, it was amendment 64 and the whole thing. Cannabis thing that was happening here in Colorado.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:07:33] The tell me if I have the story right. So there’s a, I read somewhere about you discovering music in a, with your brothers in the attic or something like that.

That kinda ties into some of the things that you do today.

Morris Beegle: [00:07:47] Well, so. In Oklahoma. My, my folks are from Oklahoma, Beaver, Oklahoma, and, and we used to go out there when I was a kid. We moved to Colorado when I was like six months old, and we’d go back to Oklahoma and visit my grandparents and we were up in the attic and it was probably 1971 72 I was like four or five years old.

And we were listening to black Sabbath up in my grandma’s attic. And you know, since that time, 

Jason De Los Santos: [00:08:16] music. Which Nelson mind off

Morris Beegle: [00:08:18] it was my, my cousins had that lived in Oklahoma. I had a record player up in the attics and no, she was, they were pretty religious and didn’t want to have rock and roll. And so we had to go to the attic to get our dose of rock and roll.

And my older brothers influenced me in that way, turned me on to rock and roll. And I was a young kid. And, and my earliest memory of music is black Sabbath listening to it in my grandma’s addicts. So that really kind of. Was the breeding ground of my musical endeavors. Yes.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:08:49] That’s cool. I have a son, my brother and a stepbrother there.

Let’s see, about 10 years older than I am. And I remember we were all in the house living together. And, my sister who’s 11 years older, she was sort of my second mom, so I was always hanging out with her and, sort of being influenced by her music. And it was all the. Like the easy pop listening of the 80s, you know, like, what is like Peter Sitara, Brian Adams, all that kind of stuff.

And then one day I saw a cassette player or a cassette in front of, my brother’s stereo, and it was like lady justice. And I’m like, Oh, what is this? This is kind of weird. And I put it in. For whatever reason, there was nobody in the house at that time. And, it was Metallica and justice for all that album.

And like, I, I must have been, I don’t know, maybe seven or eight at that point, and I just sat there for the entire album just wondering like, what is this like, this is so crazy. Like, just totally blew my mind. And ever since then, like, you know, it just totally changed my perspective about music. Just that there were other things out there.

so I just, it’s funny how you had sort of a, not that exactly, but just, you know, kind of like discovering music in a different way like that.

Morris Beegle: [00:09:56] Right. That’s funny. I was actually going to wear a Metallica shirt today. I got a Metallica shirt like a couple of weeks ago, just saw the store. It’s like, I don’t even own a Metallica shirt.

So I picked up a Metallica shirt and I looked at it in my closet today and it’s like, ah, no.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:10:13] Nice. so let’s see, with what, what do we start there? Just this is what we’re talking about music. So you have a few different companies. You have, for the folks that are watching that will be watching this.

you have some of your speaker cabinets in the background. and so that, that has a relationship to hemp. Right?

Morris Beegle: [00:10:30] Okay. Correct. So we started a company called silver mountain. HAMP. About a year and a half, two years ago, I had been working with some folks that were doing hemp guitars out of Canada, and I approached them to see if they would private label some guitars for me.

And they said yes. And I’ve been working with them for the last a year and a half, two years. And I’ve also. Come to work with some other folks that are based out of Atlanta that are building speaker cabinets. And anyway, I have found a variety of usable materials to produce guitars and guitar cabinets, guitar straps, and we’re working on him plastic for pick guards and pics and that’s all you knobs and so forth.

So that’s, you know, how can we build a instrument company that’s utilizing hemp as a main component and that’s, mm. Kind of what we’ve are trying to achieve here.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:11:25] Okay. Very interesting. and then just to give context to folks, cause you your, your work or you have a lot of different companies, I think maybe 10 or, or 12 or something like that.

Can you kind of go over either some of the main companies or maybe the themes behind them or, or some of the reasons why? I don’t think no sane person would choose to work, or have 11 companies. Right? I mean, there’s a certain level of kinda, I dunno. So that study may be,

Morris Beegle: [00:11:50] it’s really 11 or 12 companies.

It’s like. Brands underneath. Right? So the, so the, the company is waft BA, we are for better alternatives, w a FBA. And underneath that is Colorado hemp company, which, so think of WAF, but is the body and think of Colorado hemp company as the brain creator producers. So we started Colorado hymn company to start in 2012 and from there.

We started to spawn these other entities. And Colorado hemp company when it started was really a merchandise company. And from there we started a paper company, tree free hemp, and both of these related back to the music side of things. As doing merchandise and doing printing in the music business days.

And then we started NOCO hemp expo in 2014 so there’s another entity or another brand doing events. And then from there we started, let’s talk camp. Which is really programming and developing content, and that’s evolved more and more. We have a podcast with that now. We have a weekly newsletter. We have a digital magazine, but it’s all media and marketing driven, and that’s what all of this has been so far.

And then from there we’ve also got multiple other events. We’ve got Southern hemp expo, which is out of Nashville. It’s our second biggest. Event that we do. NOCO hemp expo we’ve been doing for six years. We were going into year seven. That was supposed to happen at the end of March. We’ve had to postpone it, reschedule it into August, but.

We’ve got, Oh, a half a dozen events. So when you think, when you say, we’ve got 12 companies, that’s really brands or imprints is the way I look at it, because half of those are events. And then we’ve also got a site called hemp events.org which is really just a calendar site that promotes our events as well as other events throughout the cannabis space, primarily with a hymn focus.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:13:47] Okay. And how many people work between all of these different brands with you?

Morris Beegle: [00:13:52] So I’ve got two partners, Elizabeth Knight and Laura, Laurie, Doris, they’re my two partners. And from there we’ve got. Probably 15 to 20 different independent contractors that do various things for us. We’ve got a web master, we’ve got a graphic designer, we’ve got a couple of social media people.

We have people that specifically work for NOCO hemp expo, doing exhibitor and sponsor. Outreach. We’ve got logistics people that help with our hotel side of things and catering. And so we utilize a lot of different contractors to fill necessities within our business.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:14:30] Okay. And so for folks that might not be too aware of, just like branding, what a, why not do all of these things under one name?

Right? Like, you know, for example, like Wafa or, or maybe Nalco, you choose to segment all these businesses into different brands. Why choose to do that? Like, what’s the advantage of doing

Morris Beegle: [00:14:51] that? That was similar to what I had with my music company, which was happy scratch. So happy scratch was the umbrella.

And underneath that umbrella we had. Different record label and prints. We had a label called Fisk music, which was a hard rock and metal label. We had another label called avant acoustic records, which was primarily instrumental acoustic finger style type stuff like Michael hedges and Alex deGrasse and a lot of finger style guitar players were on that label.

Then I had another label called big vendor records, which had outlaw country and cow punk, and. Beer, Drake and pot smoke and hillbilly type music. So I come from this kind of background where I’ve always liked to have variety of offshoots and entities. And I think it comes from being in the music industry where if you go to Sony music or EMI or Warner brothers, they’ve got all these little sub labels and production companies and publishing companies.

So I was. Influenced and inspired by the music industry with some of these bigger companies that were really umbrella companies for a variety of different entities that all work synergistically together, for that one entity. Hmm.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:16:09] And so is that typically because the consumer might have a difficult time thinking that, well, you know, I’m listening to this band, I, you know, let’s just.

Put out, make up a couple of things, like, you know, Metallica, right, with a metal. but then, I’m not going to be listening to Taylor Swift that’s on the same label. you know, if I, if I only like one of those two bands, is that sort of like that, that  the kind of feeding the consumer’s mind about new account, placing what they’re going to be consuming?

Morris Beegle: [00:16:37] I would say so having a variety of different entities allows us, from a business perspective, let’s say. An investment company was interested in her hand paper company while we’ve been developing tree free hemp over the course of the last six years, and. Maybe we would want to sell that company to another company that wanted to acquire a hemp paper company.

Let’s say some hedge fund was looking to add that to their portfolio and they said, Oh, WAF was got, Hey, they’ve got a paper company, they’ve got a hemp guitar company. We’re not interested in that guitar company, but we are interested at the paper company. And so within our books. And our financials, we delineated all of our entities and it’s pretty easy for us to go through.

And if somebody wanted to do a joint venture with us or acquire a part of our company, then we could just sell that off partner a or, or do whatever we needed to do in that situation.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:17:30] Yep. That makes sense. Okay. and if we can change gears and talk about, today and some of the things that are happening, so you have, a pretty large event, or, or.

The several events, that, that you’re having to maybe re-imagine or, or postpone. can you talk a little bit about what you guys are doing, maybe what’s going on, what’s going through your mind, and some of the changes that you’re making to possibly continue? I think you are continuing to do this and this, but possibly in different way to have these expos.

Morris Beegle: [00:17:59] Correct. So we were going into year seven. At the end of March was supposed to be March 26, 27, 28, in Denver, Colorado, moving to a larger venue for NOCO hemp expo, and NOCO has grown from 2014 with 350 people to. 2019 to over 10,000 people and 2020 we were expecting 20,000 plus people and 400 plus exhibitors and had sold out the exhibitor floor and ready to really have a, a rock and show.

And because of coronavirus and Cobin, we’ve had a  postpone it. And fortunately we pulled the plug and got the reschedule to happen. 16 days out from the event. I think we, we’ve made the decision on March 10th I believe was the date, ninth or 10th and  and we learned a lesson, a lesson from our friends at new hope media who put on the natural products expo in Anaheim, which is the largest natural.

Products expo in the world. I was out there the week before and they actually pulled the plug when everybody was already setting up. And it was a very unfortunate situation for those guys. Right. And I really look up to those guys cause I, they’re an amazing. Event company that puts on these huge trade shows and, and you know, nobody could have predicted this entire situation.

And, and what happened with those guys the week before, it’s like, wow, we really better pay attention to this. And then we saw what happened with South by Southwest the Friday before we made our decisions. Like, well, we gotta make this decision, we’re going to postpone it. And now that we’re postponing it.

What are we going to do? Because people still need to congregate. They still need to do business and interact, and we still have to have education. We still have to address industry needs, and so we’re launching into the virtual space like most people, and we’ve got an earth day event that’s going to be happening on four 22.

four, 23 and four, 24, we were launching NOCO hemp expo earth week, and we’ve got a variety of live presentations we’re going to do. We’ve also got a variety of, prerecorded presentations that are going to be in a, let’s talk camp library. We’ve got a virtual trade show that’s going to go on a virtual networking hall and, and we’ve been building out this platform, which we actually just started building out about a week ago.

It’s taken about a week. A couple of weeks to get this whole thing in place with the company that’s building out this virtual platform and, and we’re launching a virtual trade show next week, and we’ve got a year license to really build out this whole ecosystem in the cloud is what I’m kind of calling it.

And that’s what we’re doing is we’re moving into the cloud and we’re going to build out an entire virtual platform for people to gather and do business and networking. Do education and that’s the direction we’re going to go until things settle down here in the real world.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:20:50] Yeah. Is that for you, I mean, you’ve been an entrepreneur for a long time.

Is that, is that a scary thing? Is it, or are you more optimistic and excited about it, or maybe like is there a different sentiment thinking about the same coming up,

Morris Beegle: [00:21:04] I’m excited about it. You know, we have to pivot when, when things happen and you gotta make a change, you, I mean, you gotta make a change.

Yeah. And in this particular situation, it’s like if we don’t do something, then we’re going to go down. And I have no intention of going down and neither do my partners. And I don’t think that this situation is going to derail the cannabis industry or the hemp industry to a degree that’s gonna.

Decimated. I think that the folks that operate in this space are generally very resilient, very innovative, and. We’ve just got to keep on keeping on. And while this situation goes on, which we can’t control a global pandemic, hopefully our government and those in charge are going to make the right decisions and open things up at the right time.

I don’t think that we can shut down our entire economy for months and months and months and keep people locked in their houses. And that’s not going to go over. Cause if we did try to do that, it’s, it’s the  detriment to society is going to be more so than. The hundreds of thousands of deaths that are taking place at this point in time.

So I don’t know. It is a scary time for our society, but I think that the dust will settle and we’ll figure out ways to deal with this pandemic. And in the meantime, those of us in whatever industry it is, we have to figure out how to continue to do business. And. And move our industry forward.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:22:36] Yeah. So you sound really optimistic.

And now actually I signed up for the, the, the conference that you’re having on four 22. I happened to stumble across that, only related to our conversation here. And so I thought it was a cool event. So I’ll put links in the show notes about that as well. and, let’s see. So with, with the hemp industry, you know, a lot of change, whether it’s retailers, right?

Like there’s some stores that are open, some that are not, just people meeting and gathering and doing business face to face. And so a lot is changing. What that, what have you seen, or maybe what kinds of suggestions are you offering the people in the, in the industry, entrepreneurs and business owners about how to.

Take this and either turn it into an opportunity or maybe it’ll try to sustain. What kind of advice do you have there?

Morris Beegle: [00:23:23] I would say people just need to remain positive and optimistic because if you don’t have hope, and even if it’s false, hope is better than no hope at all, is what I’ve always believed.

because I think that if you. Yeah. Do you turn down the wrong alleyway and you just, all you see is doom and gloom that that’s never going to get you to where you want to be. And I think that that this is a temporary situation. I don’t think that it’s going to be the apocalypse, which some people think it’s the apocalypse.

Some people think that everything’s a huge conspiracy. I think that. We’ve got a global pandemic, and if we don’t pay attention to these deadly diseases, which I think that we’ve been neglectful. And really not given it the, the, the, the emphasis that we need to probably at a government level, things are going to change now and decide is going to continue on.

That there are opportunities for those that are savvy business people, depending on what area of the supply chain you’re in right now. It is challenging because, so we’re not just focused on  hemp retailers or CPD manufacturers or brands. We’re were the entire supply chain. So the, the agriculture side of things, farmers, genetics, all of this still has to continue on and, and.

Being at the beginning of planning season, people have to make adjustments how they’re going to do business together. And again, it all comes down to being online. I mean, that’s the only thing that we can do now. And that’s why you see people scrambling to zoom in and doing this stuff. I mean, day in and day out, I, my email boxes flooded with this webinar, that webinar, and, and some of that stuff’s gonna stick.

Some of it’s not who’s going to do it well, who’s not going to do it? Well, it just goes. Back to who’s going to be up here at this level doing business on a, on a level that is going to have impact. And, and it’s going to make a difference for, for their business and for the industry that they’re involved in.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:25:43] Yeah, absolutely. I get a call or an email, almost on a daily basis from specifically cultivators and farmers wondering, like, Hey, what, what. Should I be doing or planning for next season? Or there are a lot of folks that I still speak with that have a lot of biomass leftover and not a flower.

what, if you’ve had conversations with folks like that, like what do you, what do you say, what should a farmer think about for, this upcoming season?

weather. The, you know, they should be looking at, agreements or, or whether to harvest or not. You know, the plants are not what, what advice do you have for somebody in that position?

Morris Beegle: [00:26:23] I would say that if you don’t have a buyer that you shouldn’t be planting, if you’re setting on a bunch of biomass now, which a lot of people are, unfortunately, we over overgrew the entire system this last year for CBD biomass and smokeable flower, there just wasn’t the demand there that a lot of these people thought that there was, or were told that there was by consultants or genetics companies.

Genetics companies would go out and say. By our feminized seed, by our clones. We’ll buy it all back from you, and then all of a sudden, nobody’s buying stuff back. There was a huge miscalculation from a lot of people in our industry about this CBD side of things and smokeable flower where smokable flower still is in this very kind of ambiguous.

Is it legal? Is it not legal state? And when it comes to like the smokable flower, that’s where people were making quite a bit of money on the hemp side of things is they’re making 400 600 800 bucks a pound, and now all that stuff is 10 1520. I’m not even sure how, how much it’s bottomed out at this point, because I keep changing  I don’t, the smokeable flower thing was really confusing to me because I don’t know that many people that like to smoke him flower. If you’re in a legal state, virtually nobody is smoking pimp flower. They’re smoking recreational cannabis or medicinal cannabis. Where are the hemp industry is going to go?

It’s going to be diversified. It’s going to be fiber and grain and flour. So if you’re not growing for all of those, if you’re putting all your eggs in one basket in this CBD basket, what happens when the bottom falls out of the market, just like it did was soy or with corn, you have to be diversified.

And unfortunately with the hemp industry right now in the United States, there’s not a lot of infrastructure for the fiber side of it or the grain side of it. Now, there is some infrastructure on the grain side, but there’s still a limited market because hemp seed and protein powder and the hemp seed oil.

This is a very limited market at this point, but I think that that’s going to open up and become significantly more than it is super foods, organic regenerative products. That is the wave of the future, and more and more people would like to buy and put healthy products into their system. So, you know, is that an immediate answer?

I don’t think so, but. I guess going back, what I would tell people is to be very cautious about what you’re planting right now. If you think that you’re going to plant some great genetics and get a bunch of great CBD flower and, and you’re going to be able to make money 50 to a hundred bucks a pound on this stuff, that’s just not going to happen.

That’s not reality. There’s too much material on the market right now. People were setting on . Thousands of liters of crude and isolate and all that stuff’s going to hit the market and it’s going to flood the market. It’s so cheaper prices. It’s really going to hurt people this year.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:29:34] Yeah. Do you, what do you think about, CBN?

CBG heard a lot of folks talking about that. These are going to be the, there’s going to be the next wave, which I kind of have my doubts, but what, what do you think?

Morris Beegle: [00:29:46] I have my doubts on that too. I think that CBG has a lot of promise and CBN is just. Isn’t that converted THC? Pretty much. That’s what, from what I understand that you can’t really get CBN without THC eventually degrading and converting to that.

Yeah. I’m not sure about the, these minor cannabinoids. Yeah, there’s going to be places for them. I think that that’s going to be a little more niche market than CBD. CBD is really the big thing out there, but again, that’s going to be when it all settles down and you go into a store and you go into an apothecary section or a botanical section, that stuff’s going to be.

1520, 30, $40 tops a bottle. There’s not going to be this a hundred dollars $200 bottles of thousand milliliter CBD product that’s on the shelves because people are kind of pay that.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:30:46] Yeah. And you know, up until this, current virus thing, I had it for, amongst retailers. I didn’t see a lot of prices dropping.

Yeah. I saw prices dropping with, with biomass and, you know, on the farmer to process their side, of course, with bulk products, crude and distillate and whatnot. But, with retailers, at least where I am, I didn’t really see prices bothering me out. but now with quarantine, I’m seeing a lot of retailers offering discounts and promotions and whatnot, just to encourage people to continue purchasing and then wondering if this is kind of like the, the beginning of that decline, of retailing prices where, you know, it’s, I think, unlikely for those retail prices to come back up after everybody kinda gets out of, out of their home.

Morris Beegle: [00:31:28] Yeah. I think that retail pricing is going to come down significantly. I do think that we’ve been waiting on the FDA to, to clarify a lot of the regulatory aspects of this with CBD and, and hopefully they do it this year. It should be coming. I don’t know what the Corona situation’s going to do to impact the FDA until the FDA does really clarify things.

Retail is still going to be suspect. the natural products industry is still going to have a lot of suspect. Players say, nah, I’m not sure that we’re going to get into that until the FDA clarifies thing. That’s just the reality of it. But the price is only going to go down. Margins are gonna get tighter.

You’re going to have big companies. For example, Barlean’s has been in the natural products industry for 30 plus years doing flax, flax seed oil, Oh fish oil. That was really their big products until they jumped in the CBD market and they were one of the first big companies to do so. And when you see these Gaia herbs and Barlean’s and these big natural products, companies that have shelf space at all these retailers.

They’re going to get in there. They already know the pricing model and all these small players that have been around selling stuff that has great margin, very profitable  all going to go away. That’s, I don’t see any other way, and we want to make sure that, that the pricing is. At a level where farmers can still make a living.

Everybody in the supply chain needs to be able to make margin on this, and unfortunately, in the end it seems like farmers have got screwed. Over and over and over in our system the last 30 years. And HAMP was the promise of being able to provide farmers and opportunity to make a good living. And I think that that’s still possible, but to do that, they’re going to have to diversify again.

Fiber, grain and flour, and

Jason De Los Santos: [00:33:29] so with, how do you start thinking about that? And as a farmer, if, I think you mentioned before that the, the, the supply chain for textiles is not quite there. so how do you begin to think about, you know, like, okay, well, how do I diversify away from, harvesting and, hemp for CBD oil?

Morris Beegle: [00:33:48] That. So that’s the million or billion dollar question that we’re all trying to figure out because we have to have some infrastructure in place where if I’m going to grow for fiber. Where can I send that? Is there a processing facility where I can send all my fiber and they can decorticate it and then they can separate it and put it into the building materials industry or the bio-plastics industry or the paper industry or the textiles industry.

Who’s going to buy all this fiber bio mass from the farmer, which by the way, will be a lot less profitable. Then this flower has been for the last four or five years, and the same thing with the grain side of it. I think it’s going to become traditional farming and agriculture. It’s not going to be this boutique business that.

Has been built upon the last several years, although there will be some of that. I think that the craft industry will still survive when it comes to it. Hemp and cannabis overall. You’ve got these brands that put out really cool products and they’ve got something unique about them, whatever. That’s a.

Cannabinoid and terpene profile, and people really feel the benefits of whatever that product is that they’re taking. So I think that there’s always going to be a niche market for a lot of this, just like there is in the beer industry or the wine industry that that craft market will be there. But when it comes to, it’s going to be another commodity, just like corn and just like soy, just like weed.

You know, how many different industries can this crop supply. Yeah.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:35:29] So, we thought, let’s say for the companies that are doing okay or maybe doing well, you seem to be good at attracting attention and, and kind of get and gaining clients. how do you think about getting customers? and maybe we can relate that into these companies that.

Want to either attract more customers or maybe better customers. How do you, how do you consider that? Cause you know, for CBD, either CBD oil and some of those products, there are a lot of competitors, right? Like it’s hard to kind of set yourself apart. So how do you, how do you do that? How do you get attention?

Morris Beegle: [00:36:04] So how do you differentiate yourself if you’re in the CBD market? Yeah. Yeah, that’s a, that’s a tough question. I, I’ve got asked that question several times and you have to have a hook. So I guess, look at the, look at the music industry. How, how do you, if I’m a rock band, how do I separate myself out from all the other rock bands are out there?

Is that your look? Is that. Your lead singer, is it the, what is it? That song that that breaks through that everybody knows? So if I’m a brand. Is it my packaging? Well, it really has to come down to the product. It has to come down to the formulation. It has to come down to the company ethos. What does your company do?

Are you involved in the local community? Are you involved in something that sets yourself apart from all your competitors? What can you do that that really differentiate yourself? And I would say that it does come back to community company ethos. What are you doing above and beyond just putting a product into the market that would make me want to spend money with you?

Jason De Los Santos: [00:37:11] Yeah. Does that, I love music. I listened to new bands and whatnot, and, but I, I don’t. And have the inside track it. Does that exist? Like do, let’s say executives, do they create music bands like, Oh, Hey, you have to have this look, or you have to sound like this. Is that a thing or am I just making it up in my head?

Morris Beegle: [00:37:31] A lot of the boy bands created in the, in the board room, let’s say in sync or new kids on the . Block or boys to men, right. New edition. All of those were like created in the boardroom by

Jason De Los Santos: [00:37:44] menudo. Right? Like that’s kind of like the new assumption for that.

Morris Beegle: [00:37:49] And so is there a really, that’s an, that’s entirely money, profit driven right there.

There’s really no substance with  that type of music. I don’t think, I don’t, I don’t find substance in it. Sure. Compared to, let’s say led Zepplin. Or even Madonna or lady Gaga, where those are artists then created their own thing. Yeah. And whether you like Madonna or lady Gaga or not. They’re really not manufactured.

They create, they, that’s their persona. They created

Jason De Los Santos: [00:38:26] that. Yeah. Yeah. I think with, a persona like that, it seems like for conservative executive team, that’s sort of a nightmare, right? It’s like you’re, you’re no fighting  for them to be more conservative, but you know that, that’s what the, the clients or the consumers like, right.

Like, it’s different. It sounds good. And that gets, it’s good art. Yeah. so let’s see you with ’em. How have you heard about the, I guess, newer, minor cannabinoids like C CVDP THCP and have you heard any news about that?

Morris Beegle: [00:39:00] I’m seeing that come through my email and hearing people talk about all of those.

I’m not really overly familiar. It’s new to the space. People are discovering this and putting out information. I don’t know how much research is really out there on any of this, and that’s where it’s hard to tell. What’s real and what’s not. Okay. They exist. Well, what do they do? And can they be produced in any sort of volume that.

They can then enter the supply chain.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:39:38] Yeah. Yeah. So we’re, we’ve been playing around with a couple of them and it’s been super interesting. And so, you know, we’re checking with lawyers just to make sure that, let’s get, can we put these, put this out to market. so we’ve been playing around with it.

It’s been really interesting with, playing with, let’s see. THCP Delta eight, and some of these things that are, are new. And they come from him. And so they have a legal status, you know, which is kind of weird to think about that. But I’m there with a THCP specifically. It’s been fun playing around with that.

Yeah. I’m in that. It’s so just small amount can have such a strong, effect in people. And it’s, it’s kinda like people are . I think surprised that they can do that. when they’re used to maybe smoking it or, or consuming a gummy or something like that where the stuff that we’re playing around with right now are a little vials, just, almost like a, like a tiny tincture sample.

Morris Beegle: [00:40:35] So with. Okay. And this is THC V or T? T. HCP. Yeah. And so what variety do you have that, how much is produced in the highest variety that you would have?

Jason De Los Santos: [00:40:50] Oh, I mean, in, let’s say, in, the low just for visual effect. In a kilo, you can produce enough to make roughly, 2000 samples. From just, you know, Akilah for is there were, so not 2000 samples, 2000 servings, because you need such a small amount because the, I’m, I’m hearing different amounts, but it seems like THCP is five to 30 times stronger than THC, so you don’t need a

Morris Beegle: [00:41:22] lot.

Okay. Okay. So TACP is another psychoactive. Compound. Yeah. Like THC, except significantly stronger. Right. And you can get a kilo of this isolated. Yeah. Or are you talking to just an isolated kilo of ? For spectrum.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:41:44] No, no, it’s totally, yeah, it’s the, the TCP is isolated, so it’s, there’s just that, for the most part, there’s like a tiny bit of THC in there, but it’s still on.

Once you put it into a serving, there’s, it’s less than 0.3% THC, you know, which is what the government. Right? Doesn’t want to see you go over a, but the THCP level is, I forget the exact amount right now with what we’re playing with, but it’s, it’s a smaller number than the 0.3, but the effect is the same as like, you know, 10 to 15 milligrams of regular THC.

Morris Beegle: [00:42:25] How much. Material would it take to get a kilo of THC P yeah, that’s what I’m trying to think about.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:42:35] How so? It’s, no, so let’s see. I’m trying to remember. I think a 50 pounds of biomass. Would give us roughly about a kilo after you go through, cause you have to, you know, extracted, isolated out, I’m sorry, CBD isolated and then go through and isolate it into THCP so it takes a little bit longer.

but, you know, for an efficient facility that, that it’s not a huge deal.

Morris Beegle: [00:43:09] Yeah.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:43:09] Interesting. Yeah, so still playing around with that. It’s been been interesting. W we love just playing around right now. you know, we’ve, we’ve done the CBD oil and extraction and it’s good and we like to produce a quality product, but I think just young entrepreneurs and sort of having a, some scientists on our staff, just finding new things like that.

That’s cool. Right? Like some of the, one of the things that keeps us going, especially in a time like this,

Morris Beegle: [00:43:36] right. So that material obviously would end up going into the medicinal and recreational markets.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:43:44] Yeah. Yeah. That’s what it seems like we’re, we’re talking to folks just asking questions, just trying to see and hear what kind of interests there is out there.

but I’m, I don’t know. We’ll, we’ll see where it goes.

Morris Beegle: [00:43:54] Yeah, that’ll be interesting. Again, with all these minor cannabinoids, both on the THC side of the business as well as the temp side of the business, the CBGs and the CDNs and the CDCs, and. All those seas.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:44:11] Yeah. Yeah. Cause you know, like with going back to the CBD for a second, cause I keep hearing a lot of folks mainly from the processing side, which is what we do.

Or from the cultivators side saying that, Hey, CBD is going to be the next big thing, but we have a small retail store, where we just don’t help folks. We try to understand what people want and what, what works and what doesn’t. And I’ve yet to have a single customer saying, Hey, do you have CBG. you know, there, most folks that come into us still don’t even know exactly what CBD is.

They’ve just heard about it. They know that, you know, their mom takes it and they told them to come and get it. so I think the introduce another product like that, where they can see where it’s consumer driven demands, I think is a little bit challenging right now when they’re being bombarded about CBD and what that is.

so, you know, it might take a market or maybe somebody like yourself that you know, understands consumer psychology to say, Hey, CPG, it’s the next big thing, but I’m not seeing anybody getting into that space right now.

Morris Beegle: [00:45:08] I would agree completely. The CBD thing happened because of, say, Charlotte Figgy rest in peace.

She was, you know, one of, she was a huge catalyst for this industry and the whole epileptic. Children side of things really put CBD on the map and then all of a sudden CBD also assist with pain and anxiety and all these other conditions, which CBP. Theoretically can assist with, and it’s become a big thing in the media for five years.

And we’ve been building this dang around CBD and, and there is a consumer market for it and it’s taken a while and we’re still, there’s still a lot of room to penetrate the market with CBD and to follow up with CBG consumers. It takes  takes them a while before things catch on. So I still, I think it’s going to be a while before CBG catches on because CBD still has to run its course, even though CBD is maybe a little bit in limbo within our own space because everybody said on all this material, the prices are dropping.

And you know, people that have been in the industry for the last five years are kind of . A lot of us are like, all right, I’m kind of done and over with CBD at this point. It’s like, let’s move on and let’s go, let’s get to CBG, let’s get to THCP, let’s get to these other cannabinoids. But the general consumer market, they’re several years behind the industry itself.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:46:44] Yeah. and so then you have to go here soon, but just to start wrapping up, is there anything that other, you seem to be just from looking at some of your online presence and some of the different companies that you’re a part of, you’re using to be an advocate and I’m really passionate about this industry.

is there anything that you would like to leave people with, whether it’s a message or a call to action, maybe something that. You keep saying over and over hoping that people will understand or, or remember about the industry?

Morris Beegle: [00:47:15] Well, I would say B, if you’re in the industry, obviously you’re passionate about cannabis and, and that.

You should follow your passion. You should, you should do what you truly believe in. And if you, and if you believe in this plant, which a lot of us do, I think this cha, this plant can change the world, not only from the consumable side, but really from the industrial side and the environmental side.

That’s why focus on the, the hemp side of it rather than, than on the medicinal and recreational side of it. Because I see that hemp can transform agriculture and. Bye organic and regenerative practices by all the ingredients that can be made from the grain side of it and the fiber side of it, going into the food system and going into the industrial, industrial supply chain, whether that’s paper and bio-plastics and building materials, and really have a positive impact on society.

And, and to me, this industry is about social change. It’s about. industrial change, environmental change, and, and again, I guess follow your passion. That’s what I’m doing. And I see a lot of the same type of people around me doing that sort of thing. So yeah. I guess that’s all, you know, I’m just gonna leave it with that.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:48:40] Yeah. Cool. Great. That’s good message. A think a good place to leave it. so if somebody wants to reach out to you or maybe learn more about you, where should we direct them?

Morris Beegle: [00:48:51] you can go to Morris beagle.com or Morris at Morris Spiegel. Is my email. And at Morris Spiegel on social media, whether that’s Facebook or Instagram.

Okay, great.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:49:02] Well, I will link to that in the, the show notes and, so we’ll leave it there, and hopefully warrants, we’ll get to get a chance to meet face to face at one of your conferences, whenever the, the world opens its doors again. and best of luck with the, the upcoming virtual conferences that you have coming up.

And, thanks for your time today. I really appreciate it.

Morris Beegle: [00:49:21] All right. Thanks Jason. Appreciate it. Take care. You too. All right. Bye.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:49:27] Hey guys, and before you go, this is Jason from spectrum labs. Please be sure to visit us on the web as the spectrum labs.com for any show notes and links discussed in the podcast.

Also remember to click the subscribe button wherever you may be listening from, so you get notified when our next episode comes out and tune in next show and have a fantastic day.

About Spectrum Labs

At Spectrum Labs, we source local hemp and extract high-quality Full Spectrum Hemp extracts that even our families can use.

Spectrum Labs can manufacture these full-spectrum hemp extracts:

  • Crude
  • Distillate
  • Tinctures
  • Gummies
  • Lotions
  • Custom formulations

To learn more about Spectrum Labs, visit www.TheSpectrumLabs.com or contact us at (828) 229-7952
Asheville, NC

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12. Why Branding is Crucially Important in an Uncertain CBD and Hemp World – with Morris Beegle

https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-qdhf9-d9f7c5

Episode Notes

In this wide-ranging conversation we discuss:

  • Lessons Morris learned in the Music Industry and has successfully applied to the CBD Hemp industry
  • Why he chooses to operate 12 brands for his different ventures
  • How he has shifted from hosting in-person conferences to online
  • Minor cannabinoids like CBDP and THCP
  • How to think about CBD hemp diversification for your company
  • His suggestions on mindset to get through the current world pandemic of COVID19
  • Thoughts on novel cannabinoids like CBG and CBN and what he thinks about their future potential
  • What he thinks hemp cultivators and farmers should do for next growing season
  • and more…

Listen on
Apple Podcasts | Spotify Google Play

About Morris Beegle

👉⚠Check out the NoCo Hemp Earth Week Virtual Conference

Leading cannabis/hemp advocate and entrepreneur, Morris Beegle is the co-founder and president of the WAFBA (We Are For Better Alternatives) family of brands, including the NoCo Hemp Expo, the world’s most comprehensive hemp-centric conference and exposition. WAFBA also includes Silver Mountain Hemp Guitars, a manufacturer of boutique hemp guitars cabinets and components, Tree Free Hemp, a hemp paper and printing company, Let’s Talk Hemp, a comprehensive digital media platform, and several others. Spanning education, advocacy, manufacturing and entertainment, Beegle’s endeavors are both pioneering and award winning. Travelling several continents, Beegle regularly engages audiences in N.A., Europe, UK, Nepal and beyond, appearing at dozens of events and conferences each year.

Connect with Morris at www.MorrisBeegle.com

Episode Transcript

Jason De Los Santos: Morris, welcome. Thank you so much for joining me today. Hope you’re doing all right.

Morris Beegle: [00:03:09] Doing great. Thanks, Jason. Appreciate you having me on.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:03:12] Fantastic. So I see you have your musical instruments in the back. I’m sure we’ll get to talk about that company in the background. and I thought we’d start off with this. I always like to ask people to sort of how they got to, to the hemp and the cannabis industry and, can we start there?

Do you know, how did you, and why did you decide to get into this crazy industry?

Morris Beegle: [00:03:33] So I’ve been, cannabis user for quite some time, really since high school, recreational cannabis user. And I was never really part of the industry up until about 2012 I’ve been in the music industry before that, since the late eighties through 2010 I had a music production company doing everything from studio coordination to a CD, a DVD manufacturing and packaging merchandise.

Artists, management, music licensing, kind of a Jack of all trades, master of some, which was really more of the, the printing and packaging side of things. And when I first started getting into that back in the mid nineties having my own big production company, I worked for a large music video company before that.

when I moved back, I moved back to Fort Collins from California. And there was a company called the Hemper wears no clothes, that was a hip store in Fort Collins and they had hip clothing and hip oddity care and rope and soap and all of that stuff. And at that time I got to know the owner pretty well and, and read the Jack hair book.

The emperor wears no clothes, which is where the store obviously got her name from and, and became familiar with him and actually did some tee shirts and hats for some bands that I was working with. Wanting to have some him apparel, but really was not into the hemp industry at that point. And the music industry itself and being part of the physical side of things with CDs and DVDs and the packaging side of things.

Once the internet came along and you had Napster and mp3.com and then all these file sharing networks like pirate Bay and demon OID where people could go on and actually. Download entire discographies that really impacted the music industry, particularly the physical media industry, which was my bread and butter, and from let’s say, 2005 to 2010 record stores are going out of business distributors, manufacturers, all that stuff.

Really got decimated during that time and people couldn’t make up the difference by digital downloads and streaming and all that. So I was really looking for a different Avenue to take my talents and find out what I was going to do next in my life. And the medical cannabis industry really picked up in Colorado in 2009 2010 dispensary’s were opening up everywhere, and then there was a push for.

Recreational adult use in 2012 with amendment 64 and within that legislation, there was the opportunity for farmers here in Colorado to start growing hemp. And this was before the 2014 farm bill that launched these hemp pilot programs across the country and being kind of on the front lines, it’s like.

There’s something interesting. I’m familiar with HAMP and you know, apparel and hip paper. And so I reached out to a friend of mine, Elizabeth night and says, Hey, you want to start a hemp company? And we could start doing him merchandise. And so in 2012 we started Colorado, him company, and it really started off as a merchandise company doing tee shirts and hats.

And we worked with some other. Manufacturers that were out there doing wallets and beanies and shoes and backpacks. It was company called hippies, and another company called him mania, and another company called wicked him footwear. So we partnered with them and started distributing their stuff and selling your stuff to local retailers.

And, and that’s really what . Kicked off everything. From there we found a hemp paper company and started doing him paper printing and doing business cards and posters, and then we started doing HIPAA bands. In 2014 we launched NOCO hemp expo. Again, coming from the music industry, being involved with a lot of different aspects.

I was involved with concerts and festivals and live shows and booking and all of that stuff. So that’s really how it got going was, you know, it was amendment 64 and the whole thing. Cannabis thing that was happening here in Colorado.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:07:33] The tell me if I have the story right. So there’s a, I read somewhere about you discovering music in a, with your brothers in the attic or something like that.

That kinda ties into some of the things that you do today.

Morris Beegle: [00:07:47] Well, so. In Oklahoma. My, my folks are from Oklahoma, Beaver, Oklahoma, and, and we used to go out there when I was a kid. We moved to Colorado when I was like six months old, and we’d go back to Oklahoma and visit my grandparents and we were up in the attic and it was probably 1971 72 I was like four or five years old.

And we were listening to black Sabbath up in my grandma’s attic. And you know, since that time, 

Jason De Los Santos: [00:08:16] music. Which Nelson mind off

Morris Beegle: [00:08:18] it was my, my cousins had that lived in Oklahoma. I had a record player up in the attics and no, she was, they were pretty religious and didn’t want to have rock and roll. And so we had to go to the attic to get our dose of rock and roll.

And my older brothers influenced me in that way, turned me on to rock and roll. And I was a young kid. And, and my earliest memory of music is black Sabbath listening to it in my grandma’s addicts. So that really kind of. Was the breeding ground of my musical endeavors. Yes.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:08:49] That’s cool. I have a son, my brother and a stepbrother there.

Let’s see, about 10 years older than I am. And I remember we were all in the house living together. And, my sister who’s 11 years older, she was sort of my second mom, so I was always hanging out with her and, sort of being influenced by her music. And it was all the. Like the easy pop listening of the 80s, you know, like, what is like Peter Sitara, Brian Adams, all that kind of stuff.

And then one day I saw a cassette player or a cassette in front of, my brother’s stereo, and it was like lady justice. And I’m like, Oh, what is this? This is kind of weird. And I put it in. For whatever reason, there was nobody in the house at that time. And, it was Metallica and justice for all that album.

And like, I, I must have been, I don’t know, maybe seven or eight at that point, and I just sat there for the entire album just wondering like, what is this like, this is so crazy. Like, just totally blew my mind. And ever since then, like, you know, it just totally changed my perspective about music. Just that there were other things out there.

so I just, it’s funny how you had sort of a, not that exactly, but just, you know, kind of like discovering music in a different way like that.

Morris Beegle: [00:09:56] Right. That’s funny. I was actually going to wear a Metallica shirt today. I got a Metallica shirt like a couple of weeks ago, just saw the store. It’s like, I don’t even own a Metallica shirt.

So I picked up a Metallica shirt and I looked at it in my closet today and it’s like, ah, no.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:10:13] Nice. so let’s see, with what, what do we start there? Just this is what we’re talking about music. So you have a few different companies. You have, for the folks that are watching that will be watching this.

you have some of your speaker cabinets in the background. and so that, that has a relationship to hemp. Right?

Morris Beegle: [00:10:30] Okay. Correct. So we started a company called silver mountain. HAMP. About a year and a half, two years ago, I had been working with some folks that were doing hemp guitars out of Canada, and I approached them to see if they would private label some guitars for me.

And they said yes. And I’ve been working with them for the last a year and a half, two years. And I’ve also. Come to work with some other folks that are based out of Atlanta that are building speaker cabinets. And anyway, I have found a variety of usable materials to produce guitars and guitar cabinets, guitar straps, and we’re working on him plastic for pick guards and pics and that’s all you knobs and so forth.

So that’s, you know, how can we build a instrument company that’s utilizing hemp as a main component and that’s, mm. Kind of what we’ve are trying to achieve here.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:11:25] Okay. Very interesting. and then just to give context to folks, cause you your, your work or you have a lot of different companies, I think maybe 10 or, or 12 or something like that.

Can you kind of go over either some of the main companies or maybe the themes behind them or, or some of the reasons why? I don’t think no sane person would choose to work, or have 11 companies. Right? I mean, there’s a certain level of kinda, I dunno. So that study may be,

Morris Beegle: [00:11:50] it’s really 11 or 12 companies.

It’s like. Brands underneath. Right? So the, so the, the company is waft BA, we are for better alternatives, w a FBA. And underneath that is Colorado hemp company, which, so think of WAF, but is the body and think of Colorado hemp company as the brain creator producers. So we started Colorado hymn company to start in 2012 and from there.

We started to spawn these other entities. And Colorado hemp company when it started was really a merchandise company. And from there we started a paper company, tree free hemp, and both of these related back to the music side of things. As doing merchandise and doing printing in the music business days.

And then we started NOCO hemp expo in 2014 so there’s another entity or another brand doing events. And then from there we started, let’s talk camp. Which is really programming and developing content, and that’s evolved more and more. We have a podcast with that now. We have a weekly newsletter. We have a digital magazine, but it’s all media and marketing driven, and that’s what all of this has been so far.

And then from there we’ve also got multiple other events. We’ve got Southern hemp expo, which is out of Nashville. It’s our second biggest. Event that we do. NOCO hemp expo we’ve been doing for six years. We were going into year seven. That was supposed to happen at the end of March. We’ve had to postpone it, reschedule it into August, but.

We’ve got, Oh, a half a dozen events. So when you think, when you say, we’ve got 12 companies, that’s really brands or imprints is the way I look at it, because half of those are events. And then we’ve also got a site called hemp events.org which is really just a calendar site that promotes our events as well as other events throughout the cannabis space, primarily with a hymn focus.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:13:47] Okay. And how many people work between all of these different brands with you?

Morris Beegle: [00:13:52] So I’ve got two partners, Elizabeth Knight and Laura, Laurie, Doris, they’re my two partners. And from there we’ve got. Probably 15 to 20 different independent contractors that do various things for us. We’ve got a web master, we’ve got a graphic designer, we’ve got a couple of social media people.

We have people that specifically work for NOCO hemp expo, doing exhibitor and sponsor. Outreach. We’ve got logistics people that help with our hotel side of things and catering. And so we utilize a lot of different contractors to fill necessities within our business.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:14:30] Okay. And so for folks that might not be too aware of, just like branding, what a, why not do all of these things under one name?

Right? Like, you know, for example, like Wafa or, or maybe Nalco, you choose to segment all these businesses into different brands. Why choose to do that? Like, what’s the advantage of doing

Morris Beegle: [00:14:51] that? That was similar to what I had with my music company, which was happy scratch. So happy scratch was the umbrella.

And underneath that umbrella we had. Different record label and prints. We had a label called Fisk music, which was a hard rock and metal label. We had another label called avant acoustic records, which was primarily instrumental acoustic finger style type stuff like Michael hedges and Alex deGrasse and a lot of finger style guitar players were on that label.

Then I had another label called big vendor records, which had outlaw country and cow punk, and. Beer, Drake and pot smoke and hillbilly type music. So I come from this kind of background where I’ve always liked to have variety of offshoots and entities. And I think it comes from being in the music industry where if you go to Sony music or EMI or Warner brothers, they’ve got all these little sub labels and production companies and publishing companies.

So I was. Influenced and inspired by the music industry with some of these bigger companies that were really umbrella companies for a variety of different entities that all work synergistically together, for that one entity. Hmm.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:16:09] And so is that typically because the consumer might have a difficult time thinking that, well, you know, I’m listening to this band, I, you know, let’s just.

Put out, make up a couple of things, like, you know, Metallica, right, with a metal. but then, I’m not going to be listening to Taylor Swift that’s on the same label. you know, if I, if I only like one of those two bands, is that sort of like that, that  the kind of feeding the consumer’s mind about new account, placing what they’re going to be consuming?

Morris Beegle: [00:16:37] I would say so having a variety of different entities allows us, from a business perspective, let’s say. An investment company was interested in her hand paper company while we’ve been developing tree free hemp over the course of the last six years, and. Maybe we would want to sell that company to another company that wanted to acquire a hemp paper company.

Let’s say some hedge fund was looking to add that to their portfolio and they said, Oh, WAF was got, Hey, they’ve got a paper company, they’ve got a hemp guitar company. We’re not interested in that guitar company, but we are interested at the paper company. And so within our books. And our financials, we delineated all of our entities and it’s pretty easy for us to go through.

And if somebody wanted to do a joint venture with us or acquire a part of our company, then we could just sell that off partner a or, or do whatever we needed to do in that situation.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:17:30] Yep. That makes sense. Okay. and if we can change gears and talk about, today and some of the things that are happening, so you have, a pretty large event, or, or.

The several events, that, that you’re having to maybe re-imagine or, or postpone. can you talk a little bit about what you guys are doing, maybe what’s going on, what’s going through your mind, and some of the changes that you’re making to possibly continue? I think you are continuing to do this and this, but possibly in different way to have these expos.

Morris Beegle: [00:17:59] Correct. So we were going into year seven. At the end of March was supposed to be March 26, 27, 28, in Denver, Colorado, moving to a larger venue for NOCO hemp expo, and NOCO has grown from 2014 with 350 people to. 2019 to over 10,000 people and 2020 we were expecting 20,000 plus people and 400 plus exhibitors and had sold out the exhibitor floor and ready to really have a, a rock and show.

And because of coronavirus and Cobin, we’ve had a  postpone it. And fortunately we pulled the plug and got the reschedule to happen. 16 days out from the event. I think we, we’ve made the decision on March 10th I believe was the date, ninth or 10th and  and we learned a lesson, a lesson from our friends at new hope media who put on the natural products expo in Anaheim, which is the largest natural.

Products expo in the world. I was out there the week before and they actually pulled the plug when everybody was already setting up. And it was a very unfortunate situation for those guys. Right. And I really look up to those guys cause I, they’re an amazing. Event company that puts on these huge trade shows and, and you know, nobody could have predicted this entire situation.

And, and what happened with those guys the week before, it’s like, wow, we really better pay attention to this. And then we saw what happened with South by Southwest the Friday before we made our decisions. Like, well, we gotta make this decision, we’re going to postpone it. And now that we’re postponing it.

What are we going to do? Because people still need to congregate. They still need to do business and interact, and we still have to have education. We still have to address industry needs, and so we’re launching into the virtual space like most people, and we’ve got an earth day event that’s going to be happening on four 22.

four, 23 and four, 24, we were launching NOCO hemp expo earth week, and we’ve got a variety of live presentations we’re going to do. We’ve also got a variety of, prerecorded presentations that are going to be in a, let’s talk camp library. We’ve got a virtual trade show that’s going to go on a virtual networking hall and, and we’ve been building out this platform, which we actually just started building out about a week ago.

It’s taken about a week. A couple of weeks to get this whole thing in place with the company that’s building out this virtual platform and, and we’re launching a virtual trade show next week, and we’ve got a year license to really build out this whole ecosystem in the cloud is what I’m kind of calling it.

And that’s what we’re doing is we’re moving into the cloud and we’re going to build out an entire virtual platform for people to gather and do business and networking. Do education and that’s the direction we’re going to go until things settle down here in the real world.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:20:50] Yeah. Is that for you, I mean, you’ve been an entrepreneur for a long time.

Is that, is that a scary thing? Is it, or are you more optimistic and excited about it, or maybe like is there a different sentiment thinking about the same coming up,

Morris Beegle: [00:21:04] I’m excited about it. You know, we have to pivot when, when things happen and you gotta make a change, you, I mean, you gotta make a change.

Yeah. And in this particular situation, it’s like if we don’t do something, then we’re going to go down. And I have no intention of going down and neither do my partners. And I don’t think that this situation is going to derail the cannabis industry or the hemp industry to a degree that’s gonna.

Decimated. I think that the folks that operate in this space are generally very resilient, very innovative, and. We’ve just got to keep on keeping on. And while this situation goes on, which we can’t control a global pandemic, hopefully our government and those in charge are going to make the right decisions and open things up at the right time.

I don’t think that we can shut down our entire economy for months and months and months and keep people locked in their houses. And that’s not going to go over. Cause if we did try to do that, it’s, it’s the  detriment to society is going to be more so than. The hundreds of thousands of deaths that are taking place at this point in time.

So I don’t know. It is a scary time for our society, but I think that the dust will settle and we’ll figure out ways to deal with this pandemic. And in the meantime, those of us in whatever industry it is, we have to figure out how to continue to do business. And. And move our industry forward.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:22:36] Yeah. So you sound really optimistic.

And now actually I signed up for the, the, the conference that you’re having on four 22. I happened to stumble across that, only related to our conversation here. And so I thought it was a cool event. So I’ll put links in the show notes about that as well. and, let’s see. So with, with the hemp industry, you know, a lot of change, whether it’s retailers, right?

Like there’s some stores that are open, some that are not, just people meeting and gathering and doing business face to face. And so a lot is changing. What that, what have you seen, or maybe what kinds of suggestions are you offering the people in the, in the industry, entrepreneurs and business owners about how to.

Take this and either turn it into an opportunity or maybe it’ll try to sustain. What kind of advice do you have there?

Morris Beegle: [00:23:23] I would say people just need to remain positive and optimistic because if you don’t have hope, and even if it’s false, hope is better than no hope at all, is what I’ve always believed.

because I think that if you. Yeah. Do you turn down the wrong alleyway and you just, all you see is doom and gloom that that’s never going to get you to where you want to be. And I think that that this is a temporary situation. I don’t think that it’s going to be the apocalypse, which some people think it’s the apocalypse.

Some people think that everything’s a huge conspiracy. I think that. We’ve got a global pandemic, and if we don’t pay attention to these deadly diseases, which I think that we’ve been neglectful. And really not given it the, the, the, the emphasis that we need to probably at a government level, things are going to change now and decide is going to continue on.

That there are opportunities for those that are savvy business people, depending on what area of the supply chain you’re in right now. It is challenging because, so we’re not just focused on  hemp retailers or CPD manufacturers or brands. We’re were the entire supply chain. So the, the agriculture side of things, farmers, genetics, all of this still has to continue on and, and.

Being at the beginning of planning season, people have to make adjustments how they’re going to do business together. And again, it all comes down to being online. I mean, that’s the only thing that we can do now. And that’s why you see people scrambling to zoom in and doing this stuff. I mean, day in and day out, I, my email boxes flooded with this webinar, that webinar, and, and some of that stuff’s gonna stick.

Some of it’s not who’s going to do it well, who’s not going to do it? Well, it just goes. Back to who’s going to be up here at this level doing business on a, on a level that is going to have impact. And, and it’s going to make a difference for, for their business and for the industry that they’re involved in.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:25:43] Yeah, absolutely. I get a call or an email, almost on a daily basis from specifically cultivators and farmers wondering, like, Hey, what, what. Should I be doing or planning for next season? Or there are a lot of folks that I still speak with that have a lot of biomass leftover and not a flower.

what, if you’ve had conversations with folks like that, like what do you, what do you say, what should a farmer think about for, this upcoming season?

weather. The, you know, they should be looking at, agreements or, or whether to harvest or not. You know, the plants are not what, what advice do you have for somebody in that position?

Morris Beegle: [00:26:23] I would say that if you don’t have a buyer that you shouldn’t be planting, if you’re setting on a bunch of biomass now, which a lot of people are, unfortunately, we over overgrew the entire system this last year for CBD biomass and smokeable flower, there just wasn’t the demand there that a lot of these people thought that there was, or were told that there was by consultants or genetics companies.

Genetics companies would go out and say. By our feminized seed, by our clones. We’ll buy it all back from you, and then all of a sudden, nobody’s buying stuff back. There was a huge miscalculation from a lot of people in our industry about this CBD side of things and smokeable flower where smokable flower still is in this very kind of ambiguous.

Is it legal? Is it not legal state? And when it comes to like the smokable flower, that’s where people were making quite a bit of money on the hemp side of things is they’re making 400 600 800 bucks a pound, and now all that stuff is 10 1520. I’m not even sure how, how much it’s bottomed out at this point, because I keep changing  I don’t, the smokeable flower thing was really confusing to me because I don’t know that many people that like to smoke him flower. If you’re in a legal state, virtually nobody is smoking pimp flower. They’re smoking recreational cannabis or medicinal cannabis. Where are the hemp industry is going to go?

It’s going to be diversified. It’s going to be fiber and grain and flour. So if you’re not growing for all of those, if you’re putting all your eggs in one basket in this CBD basket, what happens when the bottom falls out of the market, just like it did was soy or with corn, you have to be diversified.

And unfortunately with the hemp industry right now in the United States, there’s not a lot of infrastructure for the fiber side of it or the grain side of it. Now, there is some infrastructure on the grain side, but there’s still a limited market because hemp seed and protein powder and the hemp seed oil.

This is a very limited market at this point, but I think that that’s going to open up and become significantly more than it is super foods, organic regenerative products. That is the wave of the future, and more and more people would like to buy and put healthy products into their system. So, you know, is that an immediate answer?

I don’t think so, but. I guess going back, what I would tell people is to be very cautious about what you’re planting right now. If you think that you’re going to plant some great genetics and get a bunch of great CBD flower and, and you’re going to be able to make money 50 to a hundred bucks a pound on this stuff, that’s just not going to happen.

That’s not reality. There’s too much material on the market right now. People were setting on . Thousands of liters of crude and isolate and all that stuff’s going to hit the market and it’s going to flood the market. It’s so cheaper prices. It’s really going to hurt people this year.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:29:34] Yeah. Do you, what do you think about, CBN?

CBG heard a lot of folks talking about that. These are going to be the, there’s going to be the next wave, which I kind of have my doubts, but what, what do you think?

Morris Beegle: [00:29:46] I have my doubts on that too. I think that CBG has a lot of promise and CBN is just. Isn’t that converted THC? Pretty much. That’s what, from what I understand that you can’t really get CBN without THC eventually degrading and converting to that.

Yeah. I’m not sure about the, these minor cannabinoids. Yeah, there’s going to be places for them. I think that that’s going to be a little more niche market than CBD. CBD is really the big thing out there, but again, that’s going to be when it all settles down and you go into a store and you go into an apothecary section or a botanical section, that stuff’s going to be.

1520, 30, $40 tops a bottle. There’s not going to be this a hundred dollars $200 bottles of thousand milliliter CBD product that’s on the shelves because people are kind of pay that.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:30:46] Yeah. And you know, up until this, current virus thing, I had it for, amongst retailers. I didn’t see a lot of prices dropping.

Yeah. I saw prices dropping with, with biomass and, you know, on the farmer to process their side, of course, with bulk products, crude and distillate and whatnot. But, with retailers, at least where I am, I didn’t really see prices bothering me out. but now with quarantine, I’m seeing a lot of retailers offering discounts and promotions and whatnot, just to encourage people to continue purchasing and then wondering if this is kind of like the, the beginning of that decline, of retailing prices where, you know, it’s, I think, unlikely for those retail prices to come back up after everybody kinda gets out of, out of their home.

Morris Beegle: [00:31:28] Yeah. I think that retail pricing is going to come down significantly. I do think that we’ve been waiting on the FDA to, to clarify a lot of the regulatory aspects of this with CBD and, and hopefully they do it this year. It should be coming. I don’t know what the Corona situation’s going to do to impact the FDA until the FDA does really clarify things.

Retail is still going to be suspect. the natural products industry is still going to have a lot of suspect. Players say, nah, I’m not sure that we’re going to get into that until the FDA clarifies thing. That’s just the reality of it. But the price is only going to go down. Margins are gonna get tighter.

You’re going to have big companies. For example, Barlean’s has been in the natural products industry for 30 plus years doing flax, flax seed oil, Oh fish oil. That was really their big products until they jumped in the CBD market and they were one of the first big companies to do so. And when you see these Gaia herbs and Barlean’s and these big natural products, companies that have shelf space at all these retailers.

They’re going to get in there. They already know the pricing model and all these small players that have been around selling stuff that has great margin, very profitable  all going to go away. That’s, I don’t see any other way, and we want to make sure that, that the pricing is. At a level where farmers can still make a living.

Everybody in the supply chain needs to be able to make margin on this, and unfortunately, in the end it seems like farmers have got screwed. Over and over and over in our system the last 30 years. And HAMP was the promise of being able to provide farmers and opportunity to make a good living. And I think that that’s still possible, but to do that, they’re going to have to diversify again.

Fiber, grain and flour, and

Jason De Los Santos: [00:33:29] so with, how do you start thinking about that? And as a farmer, if, I think you mentioned before that the, the, the supply chain for textiles is not quite there. so how do you begin to think about, you know, like, okay, well, how do I diversify away from, harvesting and, hemp for CBD oil?

Morris Beegle: [00:33:48] That. So that’s the million or billion dollar question that we’re all trying to figure out because we have to have some infrastructure in place where if I’m going to grow for fiber. Where can I send that? Is there a processing facility where I can send all my fiber and they can decorticate it and then they can separate it and put it into the building materials industry or the bio-plastics industry or the paper industry or the textiles industry.

Who’s going to buy all this fiber bio mass from the farmer, which by the way, will be a lot less profitable. Then this flower has been for the last four or five years, and the same thing with the grain side of it. I think it’s going to become traditional farming and agriculture. It’s not going to be this boutique business that.

Has been built upon the last several years, although there will be some of that. I think that the craft industry will still survive when it comes to it. Hemp and cannabis overall. You’ve got these brands that put out really cool products and they’ve got something unique about them, whatever. That’s a.

Cannabinoid and terpene profile, and people really feel the benefits of whatever that product is that they’re taking. So I think that there’s always going to be a niche market for a lot of this, just like there is in the beer industry or the wine industry that that craft market will be there. But when it comes to, it’s going to be another commodity, just like corn and just like soy, just like weed.

You know, how many different industries can this crop supply. Yeah.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:35:29] So, we thought, let’s say for the companies that are doing okay or maybe doing well, you seem to be good at attracting attention and, and kind of get and gaining clients. how do you think about getting customers? and maybe we can relate that into these companies that.

Want to either attract more customers or maybe better customers. How do you, how do you consider that? Cause you know, for CBD, either CBD oil and some of those products, there are a lot of competitors, right? Like it’s hard to kind of set yourself apart. So how do you, how do you do that? How do you get attention?

Morris Beegle: [00:36:04] So how do you differentiate yourself if you’re in the CBD market? Yeah. Yeah, that’s a, that’s a tough question. I, I’ve got asked that question several times and you have to have a hook. So I guess, look at the, look at the music industry. How, how do you, if I’m a rock band, how do I separate myself out from all the other rock bands are out there?

Is that your look? Is that. Your lead singer, is it the, what is it? That song that that breaks through that everybody knows? So if I’m a brand. Is it my packaging? Well, it really has to come down to the product. It has to come down to the formulation. It has to come down to the company ethos. What does your company do?

Are you involved in the local community? Are you involved in something that sets yourself apart from all your competitors? What can you do that that really differentiate yourself? And I would say that it does come back to community company ethos. What are you doing above and beyond just putting a product into the market that would make me want to spend money with you?

Jason De Los Santos: [00:37:11] Yeah. Does that, I love music. I listened to new bands and whatnot, and, but I, I don’t. And have the inside track it. Does that exist? Like do, let’s say executives, do they create music bands like, Oh, Hey, you have to have this look, or you have to sound like this. Is that a thing or am I just making it up in my head?

Morris Beegle: [00:37:31] A lot of the boy bands created in the, in the board room, let’s say in sync or new kids on the . Block or boys to men, right. New edition. All of those were like created in the boardroom by

Jason De Los Santos: [00:37:44] menudo. Right? Like that’s kind of like the new assumption for that.

Morris Beegle: [00:37:49] And so is there a really, that’s an, that’s entirely money, profit driven right there.

There’s really no substance with  that type of music. I don’t think, I don’t, I don’t find substance in it. Sure. Compared to, let’s say led Zepplin. Or even Madonna or lady Gaga, where those are artists then created their own thing. Yeah. And whether you like Madonna or lady Gaga or not. They’re really not manufactured.

They create, they, that’s their persona. They created

Jason De Los Santos: [00:38:26] that. Yeah. Yeah. I think with, a persona like that, it seems like for conservative executive team, that’s sort of a nightmare, right? It’s like you’re, you’re no fighting  for them to be more conservative, but you know that, that’s what the, the clients or the consumers like, right.

Like, it’s different. It sounds good. And that gets, it’s good art. Yeah. so let’s see you with ’em. How have you heard about the, I guess, newer, minor cannabinoids like C CVDP THCP and have you heard any news about that?

Morris Beegle: [00:39:00] I’m seeing that come through my email and hearing people talk about all of those.

I’m not really overly familiar. It’s new to the space. People are discovering this and putting out information. I don’t know how much research is really out there on any of this, and that’s where it’s hard to tell. What’s real and what’s not. Okay. They exist. Well, what do they do? And can they be produced in any sort of volume that.

They can then enter the supply chain.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:39:38] Yeah. Yeah. So we’re, we’ve been playing around with a couple of them and it’s been super interesting. And so, you know, we’re checking with lawyers just to make sure that, let’s get, can we put these, put this out to market. so we’ve been playing around with it.

It’s been really interesting with, playing with, let’s see. THCP Delta eight, and some of these things that are, are new. And they come from him. And so they have a legal status, you know, which is kind of weird to think about that. But I’m there with a THCP specifically. It’s been fun playing around with that.

Yeah. I’m in that. It’s so just small amount can have such a strong, effect in people. And it’s, it’s kinda like people are . I think surprised that they can do that. when they’re used to maybe smoking it or, or consuming a gummy or something like that where the stuff that we’re playing around with right now are a little vials, just, almost like a, like a tiny tincture sample.

Morris Beegle: [00:40:35] So with. Okay. And this is THC V or T? T. HCP. Yeah. And so what variety do you have that, how much is produced in the highest variety that you would have?

Jason De Los Santos: [00:40:50] Oh, I mean, in, let’s say, in, the low just for visual effect. In a kilo, you can produce enough to make roughly, 2000 samples. From just, you know, Akilah for is there were, so not 2000 samples, 2000 servings, because you need such a small amount because the, I’m, I’m hearing different amounts, but it seems like THCP is five to 30 times stronger than THC, so you don’t need a

Morris Beegle: [00:41:22] lot.

Okay. Okay. So TACP is another psychoactive. Compound. Yeah. Like THC, except significantly stronger. Right. And you can get a kilo of this isolated. Yeah. Or are you talking to just an isolated kilo of ? For spectrum.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:41:44] No, no, it’s totally, yeah, it’s the, the TCP is isolated, so it’s, there’s just that, for the most part, there’s like a tiny bit of THC in there, but it’s still on.

Once you put it into a serving, there’s, it’s less than 0.3% THC, you know, which is what the government. Right? Doesn’t want to see you go over a, but the THCP level is, I forget the exact amount right now with what we’re playing with, but it’s, it’s a smaller number than the 0.3, but the effect is the same as like, you know, 10 to 15 milligrams of regular THC.

Morris Beegle: [00:42:25] How much. Material would it take to get a kilo of THC P yeah, that’s what I’m trying to think about.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:42:35] How so? It’s, no, so let’s see. I’m trying to remember. I think a 50 pounds of biomass. Would give us roughly about a kilo after you go through, cause you have to, you know, extracted, isolated out, I’m sorry, CBD isolated and then go through and isolate it into THCP so it takes a little bit longer.

but, you know, for an efficient facility that, that it’s not a huge deal.

Morris Beegle: [00:43:09] Yeah.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:43:09] Interesting. Yeah, so still playing around with that. It’s been been interesting. W we love just playing around right now. you know, we’ve, we’ve done the CBD oil and extraction and it’s good and we like to produce a quality product, but I think just young entrepreneurs and sort of having a, some scientists on our staff, just finding new things like that.

That’s cool. Right? Like some of the, one of the things that keeps us going, especially in a time like this,

Morris Beegle: [00:43:36] right. So that material obviously would end up going into the medicinal and recreational markets.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:43:44] Yeah. Yeah. That’s what it seems like we’re, we’re talking to folks just asking questions, just trying to see and hear what kind of interests there is out there.

but I’m, I don’t know. We’ll, we’ll see where it goes.

Morris Beegle: [00:43:54] Yeah, that’ll be interesting. Again, with all these minor cannabinoids, both on the THC side of the business as well as the temp side of the business, the CBGs and the CDNs and the CDCs, and. All those seas.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:44:11] Yeah. Yeah. Cause you know, like with going back to the CBD for a second, cause I keep hearing a lot of folks mainly from the processing side, which is what we do.

Or from the cultivators side saying that, Hey, CBD is going to be the next big thing, but we have a small retail store, where we just don’t help folks. We try to understand what people want and what, what works and what doesn’t. And I’ve yet to have a single customer saying, Hey, do you have CBG. you know, there, most folks that come into us still don’t even know exactly what CBD is.

They’ve just heard about it. They know that, you know, their mom takes it and they told them to come and get it. so I think the introduce another product like that, where they can see where it’s consumer driven demands, I think is a little bit challenging right now when they’re being bombarded about CBD and what that is.

so, you know, it might take a market or maybe somebody like yourself that you know, understands consumer psychology to say, Hey, CPG, it’s the next big thing, but I’m not seeing anybody getting into that space right now.

Morris Beegle: [00:45:08] I would agree completely. The CBD thing happened because of, say, Charlotte Figgy rest in peace.

She was, you know, one of, she was a huge catalyst for this industry and the whole epileptic. Children side of things really put CBD on the map and then all of a sudden CBD also assist with pain and anxiety and all these other conditions, which CBP. Theoretically can assist with, and it’s become a big thing in the media for five years.

And we’ve been building this dang around CBD and, and there is a consumer market for it and it’s taken a while and we’re still, there’s still a lot of room to penetrate the market with CBD and to follow up with CBG consumers. It takes  takes them a while before things catch on. So I still, I think it’s going to be a while before CBG catches on because CBD still has to run its course, even though CBD is maybe a little bit in limbo within our own space because everybody said on all this material, the prices are dropping.

And you know, people that have been in the industry for the last five years are kind of . A lot of us are like, all right, I’m kind of done and over with CBD at this point. It’s like, let’s move on and let’s go, let’s get to CBG, let’s get to THCP, let’s get to these other cannabinoids. But the general consumer market, they’re several years behind the industry itself.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:46:44] Yeah. and so then you have to go here soon, but just to start wrapping up, is there anything that other, you seem to be just from looking at some of your online presence and some of the different companies that you’re a part of, you’re using to be an advocate and I’m really passionate about this industry.

is there anything that you would like to leave people with, whether it’s a message or a call to action, maybe something that. You keep saying over and over hoping that people will understand or, or remember about the industry?

Morris Beegle: [00:47:15] Well, I would say B, if you’re in the industry, obviously you’re passionate about cannabis and, and that.

You should follow your passion. You should, you should do what you truly believe in. And if you, and if you believe in this plant, which a lot of us do, I think this cha, this plant can change the world, not only from the consumable side, but really from the industrial side and the environmental side.

That’s why focus on the, the hemp side of it rather than, than on the medicinal and recreational side of it. Because I see that hemp can transform agriculture and. Bye organic and regenerative practices by all the ingredients that can be made from the grain side of it and the fiber side of it, going into the food system and going into the industrial, industrial supply chain, whether that’s paper and bio-plastics and building materials, and really have a positive impact on society.

And, and to me, this industry is about social change. It’s about. industrial change, environmental change, and, and again, I guess follow your passion. That’s what I’m doing. And I see a lot of the same type of people around me doing that sort of thing. So yeah. I guess that’s all, you know, I’m just gonna leave it with that.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:48:40] Yeah. Cool. Great. That’s good message. A think a good place to leave it. so if somebody wants to reach out to you or maybe learn more about you, where should we direct them?

Morris Beegle: [00:48:51] you can go to Morris beagle.com or Morris at Morris Spiegel. Is my email. And at Morris Spiegel on social media, whether that’s Facebook or Instagram.

Okay, great.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:49:02] Well, I will link to that in the, the show notes and, so we’ll leave it there, and hopefully warrants, we’ll get to get a chance to meet face to face at one of your conferences, whenever the, the world opens its doors again. and best of luck with the, the upcoming virtual conferences that you have coming up.

And, thanks for your time today. I really appreciate it.

Morris Beegle: [00:49:21] All right. Thanks Jason. Appreciate it. Take care. You too. All right. Bye.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:49:27] Hey guys, and before you go, this is Jason from spectrum labs. Please be sure to visit us on the web as the spectrum labs.com for any show notes and links discussed in the podcast.

Also remember to click the subscribe button wherever you may be listening from, so you get notified when our next episode comes out and tune in next show and have a fantastic day.

About Spectrum Labs

At Spectrum Labs, we source local hemp and extract high-quality Full Spectrum Hemp extracts that even our families can use.

Spectrum Labs can manufacture these full-spectrum hemp extracts:

  • Crude
  • Distillate
  • Tinctures
  • Gummies
  • Lotions
  • Custom formulations

To learn more about Spectrum Labs, visit www.TheSpectrumLabs.com or contact us at (828) 229-7952
Asheville, NC

***If you enjoy the podcast, please consider leaving a short comment or a review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes. It takes less than a minute, and it really makes a difference in helping Apple recommend the show to new listeners. 

11. How to Stay Physically and Mentally Healthy While Stuck at Home During COVID-19 – with Courtney Sanford (podcast)

My friend Courtney Sanford (Registered Nurse, CrossFit Coach, Precision Nutrition Sports Nutritionist) joins the Hemp Startup Journey podcast to discuss all things wellness while during COVID-19 quarantine. Courtney shares how to think about indulging (you don’t have to avoid it), simple food-plating strategies, how she’s choosing to physically move at home, what active athletes can do when they can’t access the gym, and lots more to help you stay active, healthy and sane. While we don’t specifically discuss the hemp and cannabis industry, we discuss things are that important to individuals so that we can focus on our industry during and after this Coronavirus crisis.

Continue reading “11. How to Stay Physically and Mentally Healthy While Stuck at Home During COVID-19 – with Courtney Sanford (podcast)”

10. Anxiety is contagious: A therapist’s tools for improving relationships during a time of Coronavirus – with Therapist Kelly Wiley, MA, LMFT (podcast)

10. Anxiety is contagious: A therapist’s tools for improving relationships during time of Coronavirus - with Therapist Kelly Wiley, MA, LMFT (podcast)

Listen on
Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Play

For this podcast episode, I sit down with Kelly Wiley, MA, LMFT. Kelly is a family and relationship therapist and shares with us how to navigate the rapidly changing relationship dynamics during a time of crisis. Our relationships have quickly changed at work and at home and many of us have never dealt with such volatility and uncertainty. Kelly offers her perspective about the importance of proper communication with our loved ones and provides conversational and mindset tools for having important conversations during these crazy times.

About Kelly Wiley

Kelly P. Wiley is a Marriage and Family Therapist who specializes in therapy for individuals, couples, and families. She worked in private practice in Boone, NC for many years before relocating to Greenville, NC. Most recently, Ms. Wiley is very pleased to announce the opening of her primary practice in Asheville, NC at 16 Broad Street, Suite 202, Asheville, NC 28801. She continues to maintain a practice in Boone, NC and has limited availability there.
Ms. Wiley is a highly experienced practitioner trained to diagnose and treat a wide range of serious clinical problems including depression, anxiety, marital and relational problems, individual psychological problems and child-parent problems. She has more than 22 years of experience in the counseling field, 19 of which have been in service as a Marriage and Family Therapist. She is a graduate of the nationally-accredited Marriage and Family Therapy program at Appalachian State University. Before becoming a Marriage and Family Therapist, Ms. Wiley worked as a Program Director and Court Advocate at the Shelter Home of Caldwell Co., a shelter for victims of domestic violence.
Because of her interest in mental health and her passion for helping adults ensure that children have healthy early childhood development, Ms. Wiley has developed exceptional skills and expertise in parenting education and teaching parents to use play therapy techniques with their own children to resolve behavioral problems and improve the quality of family relationships.
Kelly Wiley is an interactive, client-centered, solution-focused therapist. Her therapeutic approach is to provide compassionate support and practical feedback to help clients effectively address the challenges of their personal lives. She integrates complementary methodologies and techniques to offer a highly personalized approach that is specifically tailored for each client. With empathy and understanding, she works collaboratively with each person to help her/him build on existing strengths and attain specified therapeutic goals and desired personal growth.
She has a delightful, mild-mannered “co-therapist” who occasionally joins her in the office named William.

https://www.kellywileytherapy.com  
(252) 702-9558

About Spectrum Labs

At Spectrum Labs, we source local hemp and extract high-quality Full Spectrum Hemp extracts that even our families can use.

Spectrum Labs can manufacture these full-spectrum hemp extracts:

  • *Crude
  • *Distillate
  • *Tinctures
  • *Gummies
  • *Lotions
  • *Custom formulations

To learn more about Spectrum Labs, visit

www.TheSpectrumLabs.com or contact us at (828) 229-7952

Asheville, NC

***If you enjoy the podcast, please consider leaving a short comment or a review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes. It takes less than a minute, and it really makes a difference in helping Apple recommend the show to new listeners. 

#9. Advice for Hemp Businesses Navigating the COVID19 Pandemic From the Executive Director of the NC Industrial Hemp Association – with Blake Butler

Listen on:
Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Play | YouTube

Episode Notes

This week I talk with Blake Butler, Executive Director of the North Carolina Industrial Hemp Association. In this short podcast (audio and video available), Blake shares what he’s hearing from his associations’ members, the likelihood of the state banning smokeable hemp and good advice and encouragement for navigating the current COVID-19 pandemic. Whether you are in the hemp and cannabis industry or a related industry, this one is worth a listen for considering how to take action during a crisis.

You can learn more about Blake and his association here: https://www.ncindhemp.org/

On Twitter https://twitter.com/NCHempIndustry

On Facebook https://www.facebook.com/NCIndustrialHempAssociaton

About Blake Butler

Blake Butler is the co-founder of HempX and has been involved in the political, business, and activist side of industrial hemp industry in since 2014. Blake has organized hemp focused educational events in North Carolina, Kentucky, and Virginia and planted hemp for fiber and CBD with farming partners Franny and Jeff Tacy in 2017-18. Blake is also a partner in Adapt Public Relations in Asheville, NC.


Episode Transcript

Jason De Los Santos: [00:00:00] Hey guys, Jason Hugh with spectrum labs. I’ve got a short episode for you today. This one is with Blake Butler. He is the executive director of the North Carolina industrial hemp association. In, in this short episode, we talk about  Blake’s conversations or, or insights from some of his different members.

some might be feeling optimism towards the future, some might be feeling worried about their businesses and what might happen, throughout and after this. The Cove in 19 crisis. He also shares some insights about what do you think about during this downtime or possible downtime for some of you about the future opportunities, innovating possible partnerships.

And then he also shares some, positive messages and some encouragement, which I think we could all use at this point in time, about how to think about things today and what, what to consider for the future, which there’s a lot of uncertainty, but. Yeah. At some point we’ll come out of it. Hopefully this conversation is helpful to you, and if you have any suggestions or questions about any topics that we should cover in the future, please feel free to reach out on our website, the spectrum labs.com and you’ll find our contact information on there.

So here is a brief and helpful and hopefully insightful conversation with Blake Butler.

Blake, welcome. Thank you so much for joining me on the hemp startup journey. I hope that you’re doing well today.

Blake Butler: [00:01:27] I’m doing great, Jason, and thanks so much for having me. It’s real important that you’re doing something like this in a time when we can not gather publicly, but we still need to get the right information now.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:01:37] Yeah, absolutely. And so we’re talking at the beginning of April, I guess, ended up. March. I don’t even know what day it is. she’s so strange. but, yeah, I think a lot of, a lot of things have been changing on a daily basis, so I really want to dig in to some things. you are the, network extraordinaire, so you’re always talking to people, politicians, people in their hemp industry.

Nancy just wants to talk to you today and just kind of see what you’re seeing out there in North Carolina. maybe U S and then just kinda some things that we can start to think about. I’m moving forward here today with a lot of the uncertainty that we  have present.

Blake Butler: [00:02:12] I’d be happy to.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:02:13] Let’s, let’s just start here. first of all, just to give a little bit of context for folks. what do you do?

I’m the executive director of the North Carolina industrial hemp association. We’re a Fabo one C6 trade organization in North Carolina. And we represent all the stakeholders in the industry, from the grower to the retailer, to the processor and all the professional services involved.

And we encourage that as an association. And I think that’s why we’ve been successful in North Carolina because we do have insurance agencies, attorneys, accountants, and others that are there to provide guidance for the grower or the farmer that’s never needed a business plan. Are needed, you know, to plan strategically financially.

So, you know, our association as much as we can, Jason tries to bring us professional acumen into what we’re doing so we can be seen as the most credible new industry out there.

Yeah. And I think professionalism is such a key word for our industry. You know, we have a lot of great people. I think on, on the, maybe not so great side.

Sometimes we’ve had folks coming in from a different kind of culture. and I think for the consumer, sometimes when there’s a lack of professionalism, it’s sort of. creates a certain stereotype, you know, a negative stereotype. And I think you and folks at your, the association bring that professionalism that we need so much to let people know that, Hey, you know, these people are serious.

You know, they’re, they’re concerned about, you know, whether it’s our health or about the integrity of the industry. So I definitely appreciate what you guys are doing with that. Our professionalism side of things. I think it’s, it’s a word that we throw around a lot, but it’s really important.

Blake Butler: [00:03:48] Well, and it’s how you approach each challenge with a new industry.

And, and I’ll give you an example. Last year in North Carolina, we spent a lot of time and a lot of our resources defending our industry from a ban on smokable hemp. Hmm. And wants the legislature and lawmakers tagged us with that term smokable hemp. It gave folks a different perception of what our industry was doing as we know it.

It’s a different delivery method of CBD. Yeah. We know folks get relief from it, but there was a different pincher picture that was painted and we had to go down there and play defense. As some we’re trying to define our industry and in our case, we want to change that moving forward. And now that we do have a pause because of the coronavirus, it gives us a little bit more, Tom, is how would we approach this?

In other words, I don’t even want to use the term smokable him in any of our legislation or any of our activities going forward. What I would like to pivot to Jason is craft commodity flour, because that’s truly what it is. The flower from the plant that takes different paths, whether it goes to a processor, might go to a retailer to be used in a smokable fashion, but again, as a relief method, another delivery method for CBD for that customer, and.

But approaching it with more often and knowing what we know about North Carolina, gives us an advantage as we engage again this year. The timing is unpredictable. Yeah. It’s something that a lot of people are panicking about and I’m trying to calm everybody down, but there’s really no answers of will we go back into session on April 28th.

I would say no at this point. As far as the North Carolina legislature, will we go into session at all? I’m not sure. I think we have to be realistic again, that there’s other priorities that our lawmakers have to put forth right now based on what our state, our nation or world is going through and now how it affects all businesses and remember that we’re expecially vulnerable as a new business.

And that’s why we are continuously communicating with our members and trying to get a feel of where everybody is and realistically everyone is not going to be able to survive. Yeah. Nothing. That’s the case with small businesses across the board, not only in the CBD and hemp industry, and we have to be very aware, but as you mentioned before, we cannot be complacent.

Because we all got into this to do some good. We all got into this to tell an American story, to help our community to turn away from the pill and look to a plant and all that still stands. And it can become more important than ever before, after we get through this crisis.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:06:54] Yeah, absolutely. I know we’ll, we’ll get through it eventually.

Sometimes it’s difficult, you know, when you’re in the middle of it, right? Like we’re in the thick of it at this, at this moment, and, it’s challenging. But, I feel like I mentioned before, we started recording and just for myself, but my mind is starting to lift out of the supposedly fog of. Or whatever you want to call it, whether it’s like, you know, depression or just the, the, the huge amount of anxiety.

the, the uncertainty, right? Just not knowing. I think it’s one thing if somebody says like, Hey, you know, you’re going to be shut down. as terrible as that might be, that that’s one thing that you sort of know, but I think when we just don’t know, nobody’s fault, but. We just don’t have a clear picture of what can happen.

You know, we have numbers and data and estimates of what it could look like for, for the health of our nation. but then of course that, then we’re talking about the health of our businesses, the businesses that you work with in the hemp industry. So it’s just mired in so much uncertainty. so you talked about the, the feel of.

Members and, and their mindset. you’ve talked to a lot of folks in the past few days. What are you hearing from folks like, are folks feeling positive? Are they scared for their businesses? What are you hearing on the street?

Blake Butler: [00:08:06] I think it just depends how long they’ve been engaged in the industry. We have a lot of members that will be planting for their third year.

And so they’ve learned some hard knock lessons the first and second year, but for the second year plan or that might not have seen success with their harvest last year. you know, we’ve been very honest with them. You have a three year license, and if you don’t feel good about planning, you don’t have to plan.

I’ll quote my friend chase Warner from triangle hemp. He said, I’ll tell people to plant a garden and hone your skills. Once again, you can still have a few hemp plants. Your license still exist, but if you don’t feel like you need to get out there again and take that risk, then don’t do it. You do not have to play them because it does start with the grower.

Jason. We need the grower. The farmer. To once again feel like there’s a supply chain that exist after all this. Yeah, and I think you hit on a real valuable point earlier about folks being nervous, but I will tell you that I have use this once again to remind people that we love exchanging that poster on social media about the 10,000 uses of him.

But in reality, we hadn’t even touched. 9,999 up. Sure, sure. It’s really true. And you know, knowing that we talk a lot about growing for fiber and creating a new economic system within our country and not relying on China and the fiber that they grow for him. Clothing. And other byproducts. This might be our opportunity to see the industry as a true agricultural commodity and start to diversify.

Now know a lot of growers and farmers aren’t gonna like to hear that because the cost per acre is going to be a lot lower. We’re going to have to really go out there and convince the Patagonia’s and the North faces, and the Loomis is internationals to buy from our growers. So it’s going to take a lot of

Cooperation and coordination, and quite honestly, it’s a three to five to seven year plan and it’s not a get rich quick scheme, but as we know, everyone cannot grow for floral purposes, for CVD, and after this, the market, in my opinion, is going to be even more challenging and trickier. To find sustainability.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:10:46] I think before this, the whole Corona virus thing started happening. There was a lot of talk, and at least regionally in this area in North Carolina, folks talking about, growing hemp for fiber, or, for specific consumer strains. Maybe CBN or CBG. in regards to, growing for fiber, one of the things that I heard often is that folks are saying, well, I can’t grow it yet because the infrastructure is not there, so I can grow it, but there’s nobody there to purchase it.

is that true or what are you hearing know? Are there people that can take that fiber that turn it into whatever furniture or, I’ve heard of 

Blake Butler: [00:11:25] it’s very true. Jason. We do not have the infrastructure in place yet. we do have a small operation in Siler city, North Carolina, a decorticator, but that’s the machine that can really break down that fiber.

One step of it before it’s made into a product. There was a large facility in Kentucky, and unfortunately there are no longer around, and they even discussed. Building a plan out in Lumberton last year, but the market conditions change. But here is what we do have in North Carolina. We have NC state university, and part of the strength of that university system is textiles and engineering.

And I think you and I discussed when we met that the next generation is really going to innovate on this space. I mean, I’m 51 I’m still fairly young, but I’ve been in the six or seven years, and I’d love to see the engagement and the partnership with an NC state first so we can truly figure out what path to take with fiber.

And then I think those companies could come along knowing that we’re trying to figure out a dizzy, not just a. Quick one one off kind of deal, like, Hey, let’s go a little bit of fiber and make this, let’s try to truly figure it out. And could it change North Carolina? Could we once again engage all the universities and the community colleges in the counties that need it so much and train folks for a new skill?

That can process fiber and have a co op of 80 to a hundred farmers growing him for fiber 50 a hundred miles around. It sounds exactly like the Burley tobacco co-op days because that is the model the farmer growers should just be concentrating on that harvest and then getting back to that next planting.

And be able to bring himself together, co-op, if you will, with other farmers and after it is dry or you know, just to be passed on. And remember, when you grow hemp for fiber, a big difference Jason, is that can sit in the barn. It can sit in the barn for nine months, for 12 months. It’s not being consumed.

It doesn’t have the restrictions that we all need to place on our growers if they’re grown for floral, because they got to have it in a climate controlled situation to avoid mold and mycotoxins. Are our processors not going to take it unless they’re going to have to clean it. And as you know, it’s, it’s quite a process.

So you would just rather folks know what they’re doing and be able to pass it on after that seven to 10. you know, dangerous. Period to the processor, but on the fiber side, we can get ahead of the game, and once we formed some partnerships and say, NC state says, you know, this sounds good, maybe we can do something together in the fall.

Then just I think those con, that kind of news going out there might pique the interest of some of those companies instead of us just going out there saying, Hey. Hey, our farmers are grow for fiber and create a new clothing line. I think we need some university partnerships to do it right. Especially those like NC state that have a historical kind of portfolio of how they worked with textiles and continued to work in an arena.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:14:51] Okay. Yeah. I feel like, this could be a good time for innovation and just thinking about, you know, what am I, or what is my company going to be focusing on after we get out of this pandemic? And so textiles, I mean, that could be a great idea. I like the, you know, the idea of aligning. With university. Do you know anybody there or a certain department that, you know, everybody that listens to this, you know, if we’re, if we’re in North Carolina, that should reach out to a certain person or department.

Do you have any ideas that we, that might prompt some action

Blake Butler: [00:15:22] there? Well, I think, I will, in a few months, I have talked to Dean Linton from the plant science school and others about how we could work together. but I think moving forward. Once we figured out how to reapproach our industry in North Carolina, if that’s part of the conversation, even our legislators, in my opinion, will be very encouraged knowing we’re trying to diversify across the state.

CBD is tricky. And, you know, I use that term lightly. And then what you go through with law enforcement and regulations. And I was thinking earlier when you were talking. Even in a time like this, if we had just a simple statement from the FDA, like vitamin E has as a supplement, it’s on the side of every bottle.

This can help your immune system and keeps you with a healthy heart. Just something like that, you know, would help give some guidance and we wouldn’t lose credibility. And what we build up. And I think that’s real important in this. Paul’s too, is our industry worked really hard in the midst of not having any approvals from the FDA that CBD was safe.

But what we see across the board is CBD is helping folks. Now, granted, we can’t go out there and make any claims, but I definitely have not read an accurate story that CBD has hurt anybody, right? And I believe like so many of us. That the cannabis plant is here for a reason, and I think when so much else fails, we returned back to our roots, no pun intended, and look for those plants that we know have multi uses and there is no plant out there that you can build with, that you can heal with.

Get relief from that you can feed. A population with by exploring more hemp seed and grain opportunities. There is not another plant out there period. And maybe this will be a wake up call in a way that we can play more often. Let people see our industry differently as we really are trying to help now.

We’re trying to do everything we can with this plant to help our communities and bring back the places, the small towns that need it the most. So I think if we all stay encouraged and realistic that we’re going to lose. Some members were going to lose. Some folks, we’re going to lose some growers. It’s just going to be the nature of the beast with the changing market.

But at the same time, if we stay encouraged and look for new partnerships and opportunities, I think North Carolina. We’ll be one of those top hemp States. I think agriculture is in our DNA.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:18:22] Yeah. you’re a tree advocate. Like I, every time I’ve talked to you, I just feel it from you. So thank you for, for that, for being a voice.

besides, Possible, partnerships between universities and, you know, have cultivators. Any other, maybe just ask it differently. what are the things should we be thinking about in this time? Right. And you know, I’ve heard of certain, hemp companies that are doing well. I’ve heard of other companies that maybe they’re not doing so well.

So now in a time of. Maybe pause where we can consider what we can do after this, this turmoil. What are the things do you think we should be thinking about whether partnerships, whether new ideas, maybe pivots, absolutely getting out of the business? Maybe, I don’t know, but just from you, you have a lot of experience in this field.

What are some ideas that you have there?

Blake Butler: [00:19:11] That’s a great question. I think first we need to support our retailers. No, they are mostly shut down in some cities. They are still open here in Asheville, North Carolina where I am. Some of them are still open under the health and nutrition category, but as I talked to him, they do not have the walk in traffic.

Some of them are doing curbside pickup, but most of them are offering gift cards and like we’ve shifted our website, that even has your company spectrum labs on there. Jason are great. Lab here, processor outside of Asheville. you know, we were trying to do everything we can because everyone is moving into this virtual world.

So if you do believe in our products and go out there and support our retailers on their online storage, that, that’s so important right now. And I’ll tell you why is because what I mentioned earlier. You know, sure. We have plenty of growers in the indoor complex and the greenhouse complex that are harvesting two or three times a year.

But then we have that outdoor grower that’s trying to figure out, should I plan again and strength from the retailers that the products are still moving and there’s still opportunity. There would be a good sign. So if you can please support our retailers. And the second thing I would say is this, you know, I think we should all use this opportunity.

It’s going to sound kind of corny to get healthier and just check ourselves. Yup. And I’m doing it. I’m trying to figure out how I can be more effective. How I can be better for not only what I do for our members, but just as our community and our town cities awaken again. I mean, we’ve got to have that kind of leadership in those people that go out there and say, it’s okay.

Yeah, you can come out of your house. We can gather Gambian. It’s okay. And I don’t mean that to sound corny, but I do mean it. Yeah. Because I mean, what I miss the most right now is being able. To have those events. Last year at this time when we were getting ready to stage an event called plant, we brought all our first time planners for our membership to Lillington and taught them how to plan indoor and outdoors and to think we’re not going to be able to do that.

It’s tough.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:21:34] Yeah.

Blake Butler: [00:21:35] So, you know, again, support our retailers because they’re in a real pivotal position to decide how long can I stay a lot in. That really comes down to, can I still move the products I need to move online because I’m not allowed to have my storefront open right now. So I think that’d be one thing.

And the second thing, again, to be more of a. Just a leader in our thinking like our industry is to go out there and take risks. And just, you know, have more of an assertive voice after all of this is over. And I just think, you know, checking ourselves and be sure we’re all doing that for those folks around us.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:22:16] Yup. Totally agree. so it’s probably a good time to start wrapping up. is there any other message that you want to leave people with, or if not, what’s the best way for folks to get ahold of you if they want to reach out.

Blake Butler: [00:22:28] Absolutely. If you’d like to learn more about our association, you can go to NC I N D  dot org and when Jason shares, this was with me, I’ll include it, in the text and we’d love to have you join us.

Like I said, things are a little bit different. In the next two to three months, and that we’re going to be doing more webinars. We’re trying to put together a planning webinar to take care of what I mentioned earlier, since we can’t gather, as well as podcasts like this and any information that we can put out there, our association is and support in it.

Of it and we’ll do everything that we can and, you know, more than anything, just know that there is another side of this and it’s all up to us of the attitude that we have when we come out of this. And, you know, our industry and every industry, every small business needs support after it’s all over.

But we just got support each other. So I appreciate you doing this Jason. Cause this gives me opportunity, to share information with a lot of folks.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:23:31] Yeah. Thank you very much. Absolutely. Thank you. Thanks for being a good leader and keeping the positivity going. We can all use that right now, so don’t stop.

I keep seeing. Awesome. Blake, I look forward to chatting with you next time.

Blake Butler: [00:23:44] Thanks so much

Jason De Los Santos: [00:23:47] guys. And before you go, this is Jason from spectrum labs. Please be sure to visit us on the web as the spectrum labs.com for any show notes and links. Discussed in the podcast. Also remember to click the subscribe button wherever you may be listening from, so you get notified when our next episode comes out and tune in next show and have a fantastic day.

About Spectrum Labs

At Spectrum Labs, we source local hemp and extract high-quality Full Spectrum Hemp extracts that even our families can use.

Spectrum Labs can manufacture these full-spectrum hemp extracts:

*White label products
*Crude
*Distillate
*Tinctures
*Gummies
*Lotions
*Custom formulations

To learn more about Spectrum Labs, visit

www.TheSpectrumLabs.com

or contact us at (828) 229-7952

Asheville, NC

***If you enjoy the podcast, please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes. It takes less than a minute, and it really makes a difference in helping Apple recommend the show to new listeners. I also love reading the reviews!

#8. Financial advice for business owners navigating the COVID-19 epidemic from a certified accountant (podcast)

For this episode, we take a detour from our regularly scheduled program discussing the hemp industry. Today I speak with Mike Sowinski, CPA, about how to navigate your company during the COVID-19 crisis and future uncertainty. This conversation is applicable to hemp and cannabis companies as well as other small and medium-sized businesses that are navigating the Coronavirus uncertainty.

Listen on:

Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Play | YouTube

A Different Episode…

For this podcast episode, we take a detour from our regularly scheduled program discussing the hemp industry. Today I speak with Mike Sowinski, CPA, about how to navigate your company during the COVID-19 crisis and future uncertainty. This is not all doom and gloom, we also discuss potential opportunities during this time. This conversation is applicable to hemp and cannabis companies as well as any small and medium-sized businesses that are navigating the Coronavirus uncertainty.

About Mike Sowinski

Mike Sowinski has managed financial operations for companies of all sizes, from small family-run enterprises with less than $100K in sales to Fortune 500 companies with $12 billion in sales. He is especially skilled at guiding businesses through complex financial scenarios with a distinctive mix of practical advice, on-target, problem-solving abilities, and a deft sense of humor.

He’s spent his entire career in financial management positions, working for business owners in real-world scenarios, skillfully managing a range of internal operations and business models. From simple cost-reduction programs to complex IPO procedures, Mike’s experience ranges from banks to insurance companies, national CPA firms, and smaller regional and local businesses. As a Chief Financial Officer, he effectively executed numerous external projects with audit firms and regulatory agencies.

In 2010, he became Accredited in Business Valuation and has performed more than 100 business appraisals in a multitude of industries. He has provided litigation support and has testified as a valuation expert in several owner disputes and equitable distribution matters.

He graduated from the University of Central Florida in 1990 with a Bachelor of Science in Accounting. He holds CPA licenses in Florida and North Carolina and has more than 25 years of progressive financial management experience.

His passions include original music composition and fishing.

Contact Mike: www.CFOConsultants.net

Episode Transcript

Jason De Los Santos: [00:00:00] hey guys, Jason here with spectrum labs. We are taking a bit of a detour for this episode. Normally we talk about cannabis regulation. We’ve talked about the endocannabinoid system seem to be, and the adenoids. This one’s to be a very different internally for the next angel episodes as well. Well, we’re all going through this.

Current events, crisis and epidemic. Now it’s important to understand the facts of what we’re going through today. There’s a lot of uncertainty

facing all of us right now, handling ways, but these next few episodes is to give some actionable steps. Wrestle. Think about, you know exactly which ones. Be the best steps to take, but I’m just trying to use some logic and reasoning and how to best move forward together come out of this as best as possible.

And your side. So for this particular episode, I brought a friend, his name is Mike . He’s an accountant, a certified CFO consultancy practice. And he has a lot of good insights. Think about your company right now from a financial perspective and we’ll  it pretty short and actionable.

Mike, welcome to the hemp start journey. We’re taking a bit of a detour with a typical content that I go over on the podcast. And, so, you are my first detour guest, so, yeah, we’ve been friends for a long time. So, you know, when, Marcus actually suggested, you know, Hey, what did you think about, maybe offering some, some advice or some guidance about.

Finance or just know kind of how to navigate and actually knew your company. So you were the first person that came to mind. Yeah. So just for folks that don’t know about you, just can you say a little bit about what you do? what’s your background?

Mike Sowinski: [00:01:53] Yeah, I own CFO consultants, which does, decision making for companies, but I’m a CPA, so I do all of those normal CPA firm things.

And so, the, the tax law and all of that that’s coming out now as well as, what’s going on, in the, in the Congress and all that I have to stay up on because of tax law and I’m staying in touch for all of my clients and putting out information like this.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:02:18] And you have a quite a variety of clients.

You do have some people that are in the hemp business, right? Some clients that are in the hemp business. so w we, if it’s appropriate, you know, as long as you can keep things private, maybe we can talk about some of that you’re seeing, but just in general, and you know, from a high level, you know, we’re at the, let’s see, at the end of March right now, what, what are you seeing with your clients.

and what people are, I guess, how they’re reacting to current situation.

Mike Sowinski: [00:02:42] Yeah. That w what’s interesting in the, in the hemp industry anyway, is all of the retailers, which is, they’re all trying to stay open. And, I even, you know, drove by some of the shops and they have their doors open physically so that you know that they are open.

because CBD is used so often for medical things. That, you know, and we were just talking about whether, is an essential service so that when we all have to stay in place during this time, if, if that has to remain open because it’s like a pharmacy kind of thing where it’s medical and you, you were saying, I think something about the West coast that that’s a, a prevalent thing.

You have to stay open. But all the clients that I have that are in retail, they’re desperately trying to stay open. But. We have seen, people not wanting to go into even stores. And I’ve had some of my, employees as well that wanted to do some accounting things for some of these folks. They’re afraid to walk into the store because there’s the general public, you know, and accountants are fearful anyway, but all you have to do is put some germs in there.

And now we’re like, well, I’m not going there, you know? So you’re trying to find electronic ways to, to communicate for that. You know, like, I’m Skyping. I have a lot of those now. no one’s coming to see me anymore for the same reasons.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:03:50] Yeah, sure.

Mike Sowinski: [00:03:51] Even even us together right now, I think is a dangerous thing.

We’re pretty far apart.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:03:56] Plus where we are in a, in a booth and closed and a weird hazmat suits, right. Masks on and face guards.

Mike Sowinski: [00:04:04] Yeah. I think we’re okay. Yeah. That’s specialty. Mike you had for the suit was cool. That’s awesome.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:04:10] so, let’s see. And then one of the things that happened today, so this, it’s March 25 right now, and there’s this new $2 trillion stimulus package that the government just released.

and we talked a little bit about that before. What’s your take on it?

Mike Sowinski: [00:04:25] It seems like there’s a lot of pieces that no one knows yet. Because they haven’t actually signed it. And a lot of people ask me for advice before signing, and a lot of people get on a podcast and listen to what all the politicians say.

But, you know, that wasn’t necessarily helpful because you’re, you’re fearful anyway and now you’re listing of things aren’t exactly, done yet. And so they’re still arguing about it. But the reality is, is that the, the, what the Congress wants, you know, American America to do is to employers to continue to employ the people that you can.

And they’ll give you the help to do that. And so, this morning a Schumer talked about, the, what the final deal is going to have, unemployment on steroids. And so what they’re saying is, is that they’re going to have full unemployment benefits, which means that whatever you were making before, you’re going to make after.

And the government’s going to pay for the rest of that. And, you can remain, you know, you, you remain whole  for the next four months, you will be paid in full as an employee. and, and, and then as, as, the second part of that is for companies is to have a loan program and they call it a loan, but really it’s a grant and it’s a grant if you use the money in the right way.

And so what they’re saying is the, if you continue to employ your folks in, in the places that you can, I mean, some things are closed because they simply can’t operate like a restaurant. But if you can employ people, and CBD a retail store is a perfect example of where they want you to continue to employ your people, but they’re going to support the small business owner by giving you four months of, of payroll money.

That you can use and as long as you use it for payroll, then that loan they’re calling it will be forgiven. And that’s the latest version of, of now it went into the dark hole and it’s still in the black hole. But that’s the latest version of those things

Jason De Los Santos: [00:06:14] change pretty rapidly after  try me. If they’re still in final negotiations and

Mike Sowinski: [00:06:19] all that stuff, why don’t they put planned Parenthood in there?

I don’t know why, and there are other things they put in the, you know. They just load the stuff with what I think now’s the time to have a green new deal or whatever the latest thing is, emissions for airlines was in there. You know, the, the, we’re trying to protect the airlines and, and then by the way, you need to stop polluting.

So. That’s the Congress for you.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:06:42] And I’m sure this is one of those words, like, you know, 10,000 pages. So people still, you know, they don’t even know probably what’s in the whole bill,

Mike Sowinski: [00:06:49] right? This new law. Yeah. And I count on, and by the way, also all small business owners should be looking at their associations that are related to what you’re doing because they stay on top of that stuff.

I get a lot of information from the AI CPA about specifically for finance. but in the, in the Hamptons tree, I know there’s a lot of different associations and that those people stay on top of those things.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:07:11] Yeah. Yeah. That’s a good idea. all right, so we’ll, those are some, some good highlights about that new stimulus bell and we’ll see.

We’ll stay up to date. And see what a, what are the details come out of it. and I think, so you talked about some benefits for individuals and benefits for small businesses. but then I guess the, there potentially some out what we usually call bailouts for some industries rather than thinking that your line is three.

Mike Sowinski: [00:07:32] And that was, that was the biggest sticking point in the entire, program was, that stimulus because there was no strings attached and no visibility on what they were spending it on. And it was just like, here, take it right. Take what you need, basically, but 500 billion on the table and take what you need.

So that wasn’t good enough for the Congress. So they went back and that was the one that they kept voting down. And now, why it’s taken five days was basically that, that you just give them the money and no strings attached. And that’s fine. We, interestingly enough, they didn’t do that to small business owners.

There were strings attached for them, but the big ones, they didn’t. so anyway, they’ve, they fought through that and now they do have strings attached and they do have, an oversight board that’s gonna ma, monitor where that money goes and have complete reporting and visibility. So if you take that money, it’s going to be visible and everyone will know how much you took and what you used it for, which is really, really what they wanted.

So that’s a good piece.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:08:26] Okay.

Mike Sowinski: [00:08:29] And one of the, one of the things that, I noticed with, getting back to small business owners, w one of the things I saw a lot of people do immediately, for example, restaurants that were really on top of their game was as soon as they announced the closing of the company or the closing of the restaurant, they immediately laid off all of their people nationwide.

Darden did that, which is the owner of ’em. olive garden and some of those, Tupelo honey, which is a local business, they did that immediately. they did it on the Friday that they announced that all restaurants must close. That Friday they laid everyone off. And so it was sort of an immediate action because, you know, the name of the game I think now is to defend your company, is to make sure that your company is still alive and now government is going to help you now.

But at that time, there was no assurance when they were, when they immediately said, you have to close. But I, I think that the goal was there was to have a plan. And so the, all these people kind of had a disaster plan to say, here’s what we do if this happens. And, they, and they brainstormed all of those kind of eventualities.

We, we’ve talked, I think about climate change and so forth where, some companies have entire infrastructure like Starbucks. They know that some of their countries are not going to be able to produce their coffee beans. And so they. They have a whole infrastructure set up outside of that country in order to continue their operation without having any disruption.

And so that’s very costly, where you might have warehouses that are closed and empty trucks and entire fleets of things just waiting for that to happen. But they do. And, and, they’re, they’re a major fortune 500 companies that have entire, operations set up. So that they can act on these things quickly.

They have meteorologists that work for the company, you know, that sort of thing. And, and in small business, you can’t do all that, but you can certainly have it in your head. And to plan on doing these things like, Darden restaurants did, where they, they knew what they were going to do and they took the action as soon as it happened,

Jason De Los Santos: [00:10:27] you know, pretty quick.

And so they fired their entire, like front office. It’s not like servers and, yep.

Mike Sowinski: [00:10:33] And chefs and cooks and all of the HR staff, accountants, everyone went, yeah. It was basically just a skeleton. and they, there are certain things like, and this is really interesting now, is the essential services idea. If you’re staying in place, you know, what is an essential service.

It turns out that accountants are essential services because we, we, are the backbone of everything else. And, and of course, the payroll, you know, for processing payroll, that’s important to everyone. but that essential services thing might be the very thing that gets your, the HAMP retail people to stay, to stay open and be able to keep going.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:11:10] Your clients are people calling you. You probably had a lot of phone calls and lot of emails in the past few days. what’s the, the sort of, the sentiment that people are calling you with? Like are they, are they freaking out? Are they sort of level-headed? what, what’s your take on

Mike Sowinski: [00:11:24] the ones that, it’s interesting, the ones that did freak out, I could call it that, but what they did is they went deep into the rabbit hole of studying what the Congress was about to do or studying what the government local was going to do.

And so they went down that rabbit hole. some of that wasn’t healthy because what they were worried about didn’t happen. and, and, and now I hear that a lot of people are buying guns and so forth. So a lot of this, it’s not a good sell, and I don’t know how healthy and, and so some of that going down that rabbit hole was, was unhealthy.

But, another thing I found is that a lot of people are getting . really, insistent. they, they, they want to know more things. So if they have control of something, like, let’s say how much your refund is, and I tell them what the refund is, believe me. They want that like tomorrow, you know, the very same day.

and so it’s a little bit, they’re a little bit stressed out with timing and, a lot more worried about things they normally would be.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:12:23] I guess the uncertainty is so strange. I mean. You know to, to, to nail that to that you don’t know how long it’s going to be. Right? Like that’s, that’s tough to take.

Cause, you know, like businesses, I think in general, you know, some people do it better than others, but you know, we, we play, like we do a marketing plan or review upon them to hire an employee or something like that. But, you know, for, in our lifetime, nobody’s ever said, you have to close your doors.

There’s no like, okay, you know, you close your doors for two days or two weeks or two months. You have to close your doors. And then, I certainly been, you know, put myself in a really bad position of just, coming back to the news every few minutes. It’s been overwhelming. And so of course people have different opinions cause you know, this is totally new to us.

So some people say like, Oh, well we’ll only be closed for a few days. And some folks train like the rest of the year. Like, you know, nobody’s gonna be able to go outside.

Mike Sowinski: [00:13:18] Yeah. And who knows how long restaurants will be closed. I just can’t even

Jason De Los Santos: [00:13:21] imagine. Right. Yeah, exactly. So,

Mike Sowinski: [00:13:23] they’ve set up the, I guess the Congress has sorta said four months.

That’s their assumption.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:13:29] Yeah. which is crazy for, for a lot of different perspectives. I mean, of course, you know, the business side, just people in general, I mean, in this country especially. We associate a lot with the work that we do, right? It’s like, Oh, I’m a chef, I’m an entrepreneur, I’m a this over the other.

I’m an accountant. And I think when that’s taken away from you, that’s really hard, and then you’re, you’re, you’re then a forced to be, let’s say, secluded or isolated in your home. And it’s one thing if you’re by yourself, but then it’s a whole nother thing. If you’re with either roommates or with family, then you have to deal with those dynamics of being in the same place 24, seven.

It’s just, it’s beyond business where like this is just about humanity at this point. And absolutely the intensity of the, the emotions.

Mike Sowinski: [00:14:11] and one of the things that I found that really helped, business owners on. On that side is to make sure that the, the, the information they’re getting is accurate and, and, and that, that you don’t listen to any authority necessarily, that you, you dig deeper.

Neil deGrasse Tyson, who’s a famous stuff physicist, he always says that, you know, it’s, it’s all about the facts and you can’t hide from the fact. That’s it. Or they are what they are. You don’t, you aren’t entitled to your own facts. Actually. It’s, it’s a scientifically proven, and he goes through the methods and so forth.

But I found that a lot of people have really appreciated when you tell them that this is a, and that’s where they, they ha, retreat to as sort of the professionals like myself and, and lawyers and other people that they trust, financial advisors, or, or even a trusted family member. That, that is sort of, you know.

In the middle and doesn’t all of the hype and hyperbole and, and, and political, whatever, political environment, all that doesn’t matter at the end of the day. In this case, in this particular, environment, it’s a fact that there’s a virus and it’s a fact that people are dying. And so that’s not something that’s open for.

Interpretation. You can’t argue about it. so what do we do about it?  and so the, the, what do we do about it becomes a lot more interesting when you get past the fact that we have to deal with this.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:15:32] You’re probably one of the most logical minded people that I know. You’re always like, you know, here, here it is.

Like, here are the facts. And so therefore, here’s what we have to decide on. do you find yourself as much as you want to share? Like do you find yourself kind of. Teetering on that, like emotional kind of, indecision or, or maybe the indecision is not the right word, but just, moving away from that, the typical logical side of you.

Mike Sowinski: [00:15:53] Yeah. The, the hard part is, is that, all these are unknowns. And so even in my business, we’re an essential service. And. I’ve had absolutely no slow down. It was tax season when the stuff hit. So I had more than enough work, and a lot of people want their stuff, like when it, like now, like I was saying, they’re a little more nervous about things.

but even in spite of that, all of these things coming out from the Congress, I really don’t know. What they’re going to come out with and, and I don’t know which direction I’ll take the firm because every small business owner has to do the right thing for their business, whatever that is, and you have to make the best decision based on what the facts are at the time and what you have available to you.

I’m fortunate that I didn’t have to make any decisions yet, but I know that all that’s coming. And, and if the Congress is going to give you, for example, free payroll, you know, why wouldn’t everyone take advantage of that, in this time? I think the problem in my business is certainly going to be collections because all of my clients are feeling the problem more than I am.

And, and, and some of them are in the hemp industry, some of ’em are retailers, large retailers, and some of them are, are directly related to advertising or something that’s not going to be restarted right away. And so when those things hit. I have to take the actions I have to do for my business, but not until those things happen.

And I think that’s what the Congress is real legislation is really about, is trying to help you. If you’re going to make a decision, that’s perfectly logical, but if you’re going to make that decision, they’re going to help you. In every part of that,

Jason De Los Santos: [00:17:23] if an individual for

Mike Sowinski: [00:17:24] the businesses. Exactly. As the small companies.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:17:27] Yep. Okay. So now that we sort of, you know, from this conversation, we understand the facts, right? Like this is just a catastrophe of great magnitude. It’s just a fact. Here’s where we are. So what about, let’s talk about a couple of different companies scenarios, right? Let’s talk about, companies that, let’s say they’re there.

They’ve done well so far, and, you know, you always talk about cash and, and you know, cashflow. And so let’s say that some company’s positioned well. What, what should they be thinking about at this point with the uncertainty that lies ahead? What do you suggest?

Mike Sowinski: [00:18:00] Well, the, it’s really interesting cause a, Warren Buffett’s had always said that when other people get concerned, I start to get greedy.

And so it’s kind of the same, environment I’m seeing. I talked to bankers who bank only large really successful companies and the bankers messages were open for business. Come in and and get your, get your money, you know, whatever you need, whatever you want to do. And so what, what, the really successful folks can do is take advantage of this time and, and look for opportunities.

For example, you know, if there is a failing business or someone’s going to have a real problem and they’re related to your business, you could actually buy them. Or you could go into business with them or provide them alone alone that has a string to it that says that if you’ve default, then I get your business kind of thing.

but you’re helping others, but you’re also expanding your business at the same time. A real, real estate hasn’t been, there has been some impact to real estate already with people worried about closings and so forth. But a lot of that is still moving forward. And so, the pricing of real estate’s going down.

And so the, the, the opportunity for companies and individuals is going to be much greater in the, in the near future. In fact, some appraisers or real estate have, you know, barked right now because. The uncertainty is hurting, how would you value a, a house right now? and sign off to it because no one really knows what this means to their market.

So it’s a really stressful thing to be appraiser right now and that environment, you know. But those opportunities, are, are definitely, and it’s been a long time, 11 years or longer, where there was this opportunities that, that are going to come in front of these folks that have the ability to help, but also be able to, at the same time increase your wealth and increase your business size.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:19:47] Okay. And what about on the other end? So companies that, let’s say maybe they were just barely treading water and ran like cash strapped, maybe businesses not doing so great. So what, what should those companies consider doing right now?

Mike Sowinski: [00:20:00] And that was a, I have some of those, you know, where you have a new business and that, and that’s another thing.

There was an opportunity was, these new businesses that just started up, or he just had a thing. Th there’s going to be something in this package for everybody. because the ability to stay open and have your employees paid for is really a gigantic leap forward for them. but in terms of, you know, the, the planning, the, the, hitting milestones and, and when, when you’re struggling, you know that you gotta see the ramp on the way out.

You know, we’ve, we’ve, you and I have gone through many ramps and, and having that ramp and knowing what that looks like and hit those marks as you go, is critical. The other is the metrics of the company before and after knowing the metrics of your company. I had a, I had a friend that had a boat and he knew how many, he had a fish store and that’s how he bought his boat.

And so everything in his life was how many fish you would have to sell. How many of these tropical fish, and he had it down to, well, that’s 1,300 fish or 2000. And everything in his life was based on those fish. and that example can be put into, into service for any company, especially the ones that are struggling or at the, at the beginning of a ramp, just to have an idea of what’s the, what is that break even?

Where is that fish? And also, how, how much are you willing to, to stick it out. Right? Because you don’t want to sacrifice your family, your sacrifice, your entire wellbeing because you’re trying to start something. But on the other hand, you got to take that risk cause that’s where the reward is. Then the

Jason De Los Santos: [00:21:29] rainbow.

Yeah. That’s a good way to think about it. That’s fine. You know, you’re friends with the, with the finish, like it wasn’t dollar amounts. It was like how many

Mike Sowinski: [00:21:35] fish?

Oh yeah. And, and some other, people people had been taking advantage of lately. it was, you know, their relationship with vendors has been absolutely critical because when you tell them, Hey, the chips are down and they know the chips are down too. But if you tell them what your ramp looks like, or you tell them how long it’ll take to pay, or you, set up a payment plan with them, they will provide you free lending.

And so that’s a great place to start is with vendors to make sure that they know where you’re at. some people, for example, I was with a, I have a, a struggling, we’re, Countrywide, wholesaler of foods. And so because of this thing, they were struggling. But then because of this crisis and everyone’s in a grocery store, suddenly they’re the star of the show.

And so we’re a bank was very upset at them and the bank is doing all sorts of things that are really upsetting to that whole S to that, retail or that wholesaler of, of foods. Now that they’re there, suddenly. You know, bright star. And so this has not changed everything for the worst cause. The other thing I like to say about small businesses is if, when you are a, have this relationship with your employees and you want to lay people off or you want to help them, obviously everybody wants to help your employee, point them in a direction of a, of a place that’s still open.

grocery stores are, are, if you fog a mirror, you can work at a grocery store right now.

If you, if you walk into a grocery store, you’re hired and this, and, and they’re, they’re not a bad career. And there’s, there’s a lot food, of any sort that, that’s being sold. You know, all of the, manufacturers of food, all of them are hiring as well. And so there’s a lot of opportunity out there for people to get to work and that want to still succeed and there’s so much opportunity out there.

It’s just in a different place now. Sure.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:23:27] It seems like food delivery, groceries,

Mike Sowinski: [00:23:29] exactly.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:23:30] What was that? Heard that Amazon was hiring 100,000 people or something like that? Have you heard anybody else that’s really getting into hiring right now?

Mike Sowinski: [00:23:39] Yeah. It was just all the, all the major grocery stores that that fog a mirror thing actually came from them, I think because they’re all hiring like that, that you walk in and you’re hired by the time your toe touches the front of it because there’s so much restocking.

That has to happen. And then of course, Oh my gosh, the, the delivery industry, like you said. but all the truck drivers that are delivering the food to the places and then all of the warehouse workers, it’s just, it’s insane. And all those are, and of course pharmacies and, all of those things that are so what you’re right, health care.

So what you’re looking for is those essential services thing. If you want to get a job, now’s the time and all those essential services cause everyone needs you.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:24:19] Yeah. So, you know, one of the things I’ve been thinking about is that in a time of, let’s call it turmoil, or let’s say if you are secluded to being home and maybe your job is a, is at risk or, or not, you know, it seems like this could be a good time to rethink what you’re going to do after.

Sort of after the hump. Yup. and so let’s talk about small businesses and your small, medium sized businesses that you work with. And, some of the things that you typically see that these companies get wrong. What are the things to think about, to fix today? Where I like if, if they can continue working right after this, this crisis, what are the things to think about and to fix today so that when we come out of it, that they’re poised to be in a much better position, haven’t taken advantage of, gotten better.

time period.

Mike Sowinski: [00:25:05] And that’s a, there, there were a couple of things I always recommend to folks, before this kind of thing. It’s just a daily kind of reminder and one is, always to have an open line of credit. And so it’s going to be for everyone a great time to talk to banks because, they’re required, you know, banks are required to give you this model.

This is not like optional for the bank. They don’t get to say, Oh, who gets it and who doesn’t know? Everyone gets the money, for this particular purpose. So it’s a great time to look at the whole picture with a banker and, and have some open lines of credit because nothing makes you feel better than having $100,000 a stack of credit cards that you can just.

It’s okay. Your life’s okay. Regardless of visits, zombie apocalypse, and everyone buys guns and starts fighting, you still have the ability to do what you need to do for your family. You know, that’s the most important thing. and the other thing is diversification because, you know, whatever it is that might’ve hurt your business right now was likely caused because you didn’t have more customers, or you didn’t have different lines of business that aren’t related to each other.

I know, you, you and your business have, have done that. with hemp, but also other areas where you’re in to several different industries. It’s not just one. And so if one’s impacted, it doesn’t impact the whole. And, and I’ve certainly done that in my business and I recommend it to everyone, is to have, you know, as much diversification as you can without losing focus on your products and stuff.

and the other is planning, knowing, you know, having those number of fish in mind and know exactly where those points are. Because no matter what happens, you can always take action. And you can decide how many fish are dead before you, before you decide you need to do something about that. And then the LA, the last thing that I thought about was, take, take action, based on the best and best facts you have at the time.

Yeah. And that really will help you in everything that you do, but don’t be rash about it. You know, you don’t want to, for example, in, in my business, I had taken the, the cue from the restaurants and laid everyone off. That would have been exactly the wrong thing to do. Sure.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:27:06] So, I know you hate this question, but I’m going to ask you anyway

what, so again, we’re, we’re at the end of March here. how long do you think that we’ll be in this position? However you wanna define it?

Mike Sowinski: [00:27:21] Well, the Congress and I, I, you know, as much as I hate to say it, there, there are some of those folks have some people that are smart around them or they are smart.

and the four month, stimulus that they’re, they’re putting in place is for a reason. they, they spent time, cause a lot of them have international. Contacts, a lot of those folks. So they believe, you know, the Congress believes that we’ll be out of this, in terms of being able to get back to work in four months.

And if you look at China and the places where it originated, they have started, they have restarted their economy. They’re actually people going to clubs and restaurants now and . I mean, it’s amazing. They have done it. They, they got the, they pulled the rabbit out of the hat. but it did take about. The magic four months that they’re putting together here.

And so I believe that things will start, begin to start where you starting in four months.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:28:09] So possibly like beginning of August

Mike Sowinski: [00:28:12] like that. Yep. In the summer. And you know, if, if Trump’s ride, and I hope he is, that, that the virus is seasonal, then, it would go away naturally in the summer anyway. a lot of people internationally are worried about their outbreaks recurring.

And I think what we’ve all learned from this is that these things happen and you just have to be prepared. .

Jason De Los Santos: [00:28:31] Yeah. Yeah. Usually. I don’t like to use the word hope, but I hope so.

Mike Sowinski: [00:28:36] I

Jason De Los Santos: [00:28:36] hope that. It doesn’t take much longer than that. I think just for, for our sanity, and I think for a lot, a lot of parents out there, you know, at home with kids.

And I don’t know, I think just for, for just our, our whole community, right? Like, we’re so used to being around. People for the most of, most of us. Even me as an introvert, you know, it’s like,

Mike Sowinski: [00:28:57] Oh, do you want go to a party? Like, eh,

Jason De Los Santos: [00:28:58] I’m fine. And now it’s like, get me outta here. I want to go see people.

Mike Sowinski: [00:29:04] And then we both go to a party and we’re introverts together.

So

Jason De Los Santos: [00:29:08] goats. Oh man. Okay. So I think those are good. Yeah. Anything else you want to leave people

Mike Sowinski: [00:29:12] with? No, no. It’s just a, it’s not a time, you know, in, in, in business owners, the best advice I could give is not to be fearful, but just take action based on the best information you have. And, and, and you, you know, if you’ve been in business for a while, what you need to do just execute and don’t worry about the.

The other stuff,

Jason De Los Santos: [00:29:30] have the analysis paralysis, know

Mike Sowinski: [00:29:32] exactly. Yeah. Yeah. This is not a time to, to, to study spreadsheets.

Jason De Los Santos: [00:29:38] That’s a lot coming from you and from an accountant. Right. all right. So if somebody wants to get ahold of you, how should they do that?

Mike Sowinski: [00:29:44] Yeah, you can find me at CFO consultants. Dot net.

and, I have other businesses, but that’s the best one. And it has all my email ad address and all the telephone information,

Jason De Los Santos: [00:29:54] so, all right. Awesome. Mike, thank you very much to adding a little bit of a logic to this, uncertainty. So, if, yeah, if anybody has any questions, just to reach out to Mike.

at his domain or, guests can reach out to me. I’ll point you in the right direction to get ahold of Mike. And, let’s, let’s keep moving forward.

Mike Sowinski: [00:30:10] Yeah, thanks Jay .

Jason De Los Santos: [00:30:10] Hey guys, and before you go, this is Jason from spectrum labs. Please be sure to visit us on the web as the spectrum labs.com for any show notes and links discussed in the podcast. Also remembered. Click the subscribe button, wherever you may be listening from, so you get notified when our next episode comes out and tune in next show and have a fantastic day.

About Spectrum Labs

At Spectrum Labs, we source local hemp and extract high-quality Full Spectrum Hemp extracts that even our families can use.

Spectrum Labs can manufacture and white-label these hemp extracts:

Crude
Distillate
Tinctures
Gummies
Lotions
Custom formulations

To learn more about Spectrum Labs, visit TheSpectrumLabs.com or contact us at (828) 229-7952

Asheville, NC

#7. Everything you need to know about hemp and CBD from a research scientist’s perspective – with Emma Chasen (podcast)

Listen on:
Apple Podcasts | Google Play | Spotify | YouTube

About Emma Chasen

Emma Chasen has a mission to educate people on the science behind Cannabis so that they may take charge of their own healing. After graduating from Brown University in 2014 with a degree in Medicinal Plant Research, Emma went on to coordinate Clinical Oncology trials with the Brown University Oncology Research Group. When her supervisor refused a Cannabis trial in favor of another expensive pharmaceutical drug, Emma quit and headed across the country to Portland, OR. She found her way to Farma, the popular Portland dispensary that takes a more scientific approach to Cannabis; rejecting the Indica/Sativa binary and instead focusing on chemotypes to determine effect. She began her career at Farma as a budtender and was quickly promoted to General Manager and eventually to Director of Education. In this role she was able to focus on educational efforts and create a robust training curriculum that focused on cannabis science, product knowledge and empathetic patient care. Emma now co-owns and operates Eminent Consulting, a cannabis consulting business that offers educational training and craft industry development for cannabis industry professionals and businesses. She helps brands develop educational marketing collateral and ongoing educational programs to further elevate their brand presence in a competitive industry. She also helps struggling and newly emerging cannabis businesses with business organization and sets them up for success in both the competitive medical and adult use markets. Emma was named Portland’s Best Budtender of 2016 and featured in Newsweek, MG Magazine, Forbes, High Times Magazine, The Centennial, The Oregon Leaf and Teen Vogue for her work with cannabis education. She is also a regular guest on many cannabis focused podcasts and has been featured on television for her ability to explain scientific concepts around cannabis in a way that is accessible and helpful to the general public.

https://www.eminentconsultingfirm.com/

https://www.instagram.com/echasen/?hl=en

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